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Re: Acoustic guitar recording advice needed.

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:53 pm
by Telliot
You’re out of your element, Larry!!

Re: Acoustic guitar recording advice needed.

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:58 pm
by hillerheilman
øøøøøøø wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:14 pm
[quote=Dok post_id=<a href="tel:1593443">1593443</a> time=<a href="tel:1575153486">1575153486</a> user_id=9018]
Do you see what happens, Larry?
Am I the only one that read that in Walter Sobchak’s voice?
[/quote] Had to look this up to figure out who the hell you were talking about, and I ended up watching The Big Lebowski for the first time. It’s kinda weird, but it’s funny and endearing in the same way I think Pulp Fiction is. Thanks guys. :D
While you’re here, anybody have any advice for sound proofing windows? The room I have to work with has two of them in a corner and I can already tell they’re going to be the bane of my existence. Could it be as simple as measuring some fiber board to fit in the frame?

Re: Acoustic guitar recording advice needed.

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:59 pm
by Dok
hillerheilman wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:58 pm
While you’re here, anybody have any advice for sound proofing windows?
DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS LARRY

Re: Acoustic guitar recording advice needed.

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:04 pm
by hillerheilman
Dok wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:59 pm
hillerheilman wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:58 pm
While you’re here, anybody have any advice for sound proofing windows?
DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS LARRY
Oh yeah, the trip into the rabbit hole is already started. I’ve already moved everything out of the room to figure out the best studio arrangement.

Re: Acoustic guitar recording advice needed.

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:27 pm
by Larry Mal
You'll want to paint the windows black because the shadows will eat the music.

Re: Acoustic guitar recording advice needed.

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:44 pm
by Lamar Fandango
Sound proofing windows for recording an acoustic guitar? Sounds like overkill. Don't go down the rabbit holes. Get a decent mic (the previous suggestions are all worthy), point it at the guitar (experiment... I like to point a cardioid mic at the body where the toggle switch would be if it were a Les Paul), and record. If you're stuck on the preamp thing, get a used Focusrite ISA One and be done with it. It sounds great and has some versatile features.

Re: Acoustic guitar recording advice needed.

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:50 pm
by Larry Mal
The shadows will eat the music.

Re: Acoustic guitar recording advice needed.

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:37 pm
by Lamar Fandango
Larry Mal wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:50 pm
The shadows will eat the music.
Shadows shouldn't be a problem because all of the microphones discussed in this thread were designed for night time use only. Peavey makes a line of pro audio gear finished in white for daytime use.

Re: Acoustic guitar recording advice needed.

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:26 pm
by hillerheilman
Lamar Fandango wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:44 pm
Sound proofing windows for recording an acoustic guitar? Sounds like overkill. Don't go down the rabbit holes. Get a decent mic (the previous suggestions are all worthy), point it at the guitar (experiment... I like to point a cardioid mic at the body where the toggle switch would be if it were a Les Paul), and record. If you're stuck on the preamp thing, get a used Focusrite ISA One and be done with it. It sounds great and has some versatile features.
A fair point, but my windows are facing the street where I live and cars drive by frequently. I thought that might be something I’d wanna take care of. Thank you for the preamp suggestion though, I’ll do some googling.

Re: Acoustic guitar recording advice needed.

Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:17 am
by mbene085
The only way to really build a sound proof window is by using thick laminated glass and spacing two panes very far apart.

There's no simple, effective solution for an existing window. The principles of soundproofing are mass, decoupling, absorption, and damping. Without decoupling (e.g. building two panes spaced apart from each other), the other methods are much less effective. Absorption isnt really a thing for windows since you have to see out of them. Likewise, no such thing as invisible damping. Adding mass is possible but not practical without replacing the window (hence why I said "thick laminated glass" - you need the mass of the thick panes). That is, unless you're just blocking the window.

I've gone down this rabbit hole. I bought one of those prefab isolation booths for my last house because I couldn't do any construction to change things otherwise. I'm now in the process of having plans drawn up for a properly isolated studio because there is no substitute for decoupling structures.

The best thing you can do with a noisy window is get away from it, get your mics oriented such that they reject as much of it as possible (look at and understand how to capitalize on microphone polar patterns, cardioids are your friend), and maximize your SNR by techniques like close-mic'ing the guitar as much as it feasible (the farther back into the room your mic goes, the lower the SPL it's seeing from the guitar and the higher the relative level of the noise from the window)

Re: Acoustic guitar recording advice needed.

Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:27 am
by øøøøøøø
Yeah, let’s not go crazy for now.

A decent mic to start, and experiment. Try a few placements—point toward the neck/body joint for one. Then move it back a foot or two and try pointing it at the bridge. Then try raising it and pointing it downward at the place where the pick strikes the strings. Listen. Learn.

If street noise from the window is an issue, first try moving further from the window and facing it, so that the null in the mic’s cardioid pattern rejects the noise source.

If that’s not enough, then buy, build, or improvise a small gobo/panel/screen and place that between the mic and the noise source. Hang a blanket over two mic stands if that’s all you have.

This will almost certainly be enough for all but a whisper-quiet recording, as long as the cars are only driving (and not honking their horns). If you’re making whisper-quiet recordings or the cars are always honking their horns, consider recording in a different room, or not at home.

Re: Acoustic guitar recording advice needed.

Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:19 am
by Larry Mal
And you should make sure you live in a healthy part of town, so keep an eye out for joggers, and make a note of the density of fast food restaurants and the distance between bus stops- longer is better for recording.

Because let me tell you, just one fat son of a bitch has a heart attack, and the siren from the ambulance racing to save his miserable life will absolutely ruin your acoustic guitar track.

I mean if you want to record acoustic guitar well you'll have to take literally everything into account. It can drive one mad.

OK, I'm clearly kidding with this stuff. If you want to make an ad hoc recording booth, hopefully you have a basement available and you can hang packing blankets from the ceiling there. I've done that frequently, it can work very well.

You can purchase packing blankets from U-Haul rental locations.

Re: Acoustic guitar recording advice needed.

Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:34 pm
by hillerheilman
øøøøøøø wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:27 am
Yeah, let’s not go crazy for now.

A decent mic to start, and experiment. Try a few placements—point toward the neck/body joint for one. Then move it back a foot or two and try pointing it at the bridge. Then try raising it and pointing it downward at the place where the pick strikes the strings. Listen. Learn.

If street noise from the window is an issue, first try moving further from the window and facing it, so that the null in the mic’s cardioid pattern rejects the noise source.

If that’s not enough, then buy, build, or improvise a small gobo/panel/screen and place that between the mic and the noise source. Hang a blanket over two mic stands if that’s all you have.

This will almost certainly be enough for all but a whisper-quiet recording, as long as the cars are only driving (and not honking their horns). If you’re making whisper-quiet recordings or the cars are always honking their horns, consider recording in a different room, or not at home.
That’s a fair point, I may be over thinking that aspect a bit. I ought to get the gear itself sorted out first.

Okay last question hopefully, guys. When it comes to interfaces, I think I need 4 total inputs (one for electric guitar, 2 for acoustic mics assuming I use a pair , and then an extra for maybe adding another mic for vocals later on) and a midi connection for a keyboard or drum pad or what have you. But, is it worth it for me to get a separate preamp if the interface has them built in? For instance I’m looking at a Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD. It says it has built in preamps, but would it be worth it to get a separate one right away? My gut tells me a separate preamp unit would be inherently superior, but I’m not sure to what degree. I’ve only had an Irig before this so I’m new to interfaces and all that, but I’m pretty sure anything will sound better.

Re: Acoustic guitar recording advice needed.

Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:59 pm
by Larry Mal
What's the budget?

Re: Acoustic guitar recording advice needed.

Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:03 pm
by hillerheilman
Larry Mal wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:59 pm
What's the budget?
Probably around 500-600 for the interface. The preamp I’d be willing to spend about the same if a separate unit is necessary, but I’d rather have 1 unit for space/transportation reasons.