big sounding recording???

[budda12ax7]

OK, so I'm recording this punk EP with some friends....it just sounds small and no breathing space. Granted I haven't used much EQ or effects on anything. I want more space for the drums and guitar....will mess around with it, but a bit frustrating. Any suggestions???

[Dok]

I've been spending a lot of time learning and experimenting with recording and mixing drums lately. How are you micing your kit? I've had good luck with a bunch of ~$100 microphones after lots of experimentation and comparison. It definitely helps to get a good foundation.

Once you have the right mics, EQ is the next important step. Does your DAW have EQ plugins with a visual analyzer? This is really helpful to see what's going on with your tracks. If Logic didn't have this and I just had to go by "feel", I'd have had a much harder time.

Aside from that, I've found that I can carve out more space (after good EQ) by putting a reverb plugin (wet only, no dry) on an AUX track, dialing in the right amount, and sending certain parts of the kit (snare, toms) to that AUX bus.

The truth is it takes really accurate monitoring and lots of trial and error - I never had good results until I had the former, though.

[Dok]

Also, I can't recommend enough the drum recording series from Charlie Waymire (Ultimate Recording Studios) on YouTube. Geared towards neophytes like you and me, and SUPER helpful with details about positioning and mixing.

https://www.youtube.com/user/UltimateRh ... dio/videos

[budda12ax7]

I'm using a stereo mix of several drum loops for the drums. The snare and kick are in the middle, but the rest doesn't space very well. The actual drum kit recording didn't work out...

Some of the cymbal crashes space well left panned or right panned, but the rest just sounds in the middle.

Thanks for the advice...will try some of that.

[starflower]

Double tracking rhythm guitars in any genre and panning them around good ol' 10:00 and 2:00 will instantly create a huge amount of space in a simple band mix. Play tight (even if you're going for Descendants/Minor Threat messiness) and do the same things exactly twice. Of course you could go full ABBA and double track the entire mix

But above all and mixing aside, even on trashy punk EPs from the 80s, the energy of each recorded part all the way up to the vocals is what kept the mix fat and huge sounding, even when the bands in their early days sounded practically mono on tape (except for maybe drum overheads). And don't worry about the kick and snare being in the center (unless you're going after a weird 1960s faux-stereophonic sound), they'll likely sound best right there...It's the sounds with tails/decay that you're going to appreciate having some L or R to them, not the backbone of the drums that is almost pure attack and quick release.

[soggy mittens]

put your kick drum and bass guitar into mono.

put your overhead into a more stereo field. depending on your DAW or plugins there are different ways to do this. if you use two mics for overheads then you could just pan them, all depends on placement, technique.

depending on how many guitars you have in the track, if one guitar, do the same as you did with one mic method overhead. If two guitars slightly pan them.

vocals there are many different ways to give spacial effects, really depends on your taste, you can record them in M/S mode with 2 or 3 mics, or triple track (duplicate) and have one mono, and the other two hard left and hard right. or just double dup and hard pan left and right.

panning and stereo widening effects help a great deal. M/S EQ and multiband compression also can be helpful.

also bus your snare and overheads to a reverb insert before it meets back up with the other drum tracks in the drum bus.

[marqueemoon]

High pass filter on guitar, and especially on vocals before any other processing. 80Hz is normally a good starting point. Get all the mud out of instruments with not much low end content.

I like to listen to/start mixing the drums alone just to try to get a good balance. Getting the kick a bass working together is really important too. It's good to decide early on which one will own certain frequencies. I usually like a little distortion on bass too. Getting the harmonics to pop a little more can give the bass a little something more for the ear to follow without a big boost in overall volume.

Panning reverbs opposite their dry instruments is always a good one.

I used to love doubling (and tripling, and so on) guitars. Use different instruments if you can, or at least different settings. I'm a big capo fan too, and would often double simple chords in a different position. It doesn't have to sound cheesy. I find that doing the overdubbed parts with a brighter sound usually works best. Also, when doubling dirty guitars a little gain goes a long way. Doubling guitars can be cheesy, but it doesn't have to be.

I love room mics. If you didn't put room mics up when recording you can try reamping things if you have a good sounding space available.

To me every good mix has a foreground and a background. This is just as important as the L/R. How you approach it depends on the sound you're going for.

[soggy mittens]

yep as far as low end goes, cut everything below 100 except kick, floor tom, and bass gtr.

kick gets peaks at 40-50Hz, floor tom gets 50-70/80Hz, bass gets 80-110Hz. Obviously with high end attacks at the other end of the spectrum.

[øøøøøøø]

I feel strongly that it's impossible for us to say anything truly helpful or make any meaningful suggestions without hearing the specific recording of the specific music you're talking about.

I don't wish to sound difficult or contrarian, but mixing is about responding to the actual sounds, and letting your experience guide you in what to employ to shape them, if necessary. I'm positive everyone in this thread is well-meaning and well-intentioned in their advice, and I'm positive that each of them has employed the respective strategies they're suggesting with success before. But that does not mean they will work on YOUR music.

Post a clip of what you're working on and perhaps we can be helpful in a more targeted way.

[budda12ax7]

Thanks for the tips. I have the two separate guitar tracks from two different takes panned hard left and hard right. Bass is right in the middle. I think I will record another guitar track with a different guitar and amp to replace one of the guitar tracks, this will give some tonal differences. Here is a clip.



https://soundcloud.com/p-jets/tracks" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mackerelmint]

Mix in a bigger room with less treatment and space the monitors farther apart.

[budda12ax7]

Thanks for the tips....I will need to read your post several times. First, the guitars were recorded through a 90's Ibanez Tube King directly into the Scarlet interface. Basically two tracks, with a 90's SG with EMG's. (that might be a problem). I haven't tried a mic on a cab yet. What I might try is my jazzmaster with humbuckers and my Budda zenman tube pedal....this has an airy sound. The original drums were recorded with 6 microphones..but it came out unusable. So, I opted to use loops at least on this piece.

I have not really added that much to the mix, at least I will check and look at the log sheet to see what I did. My goal was to add as little as possible to it. The vocals will be added later. The presonus studio one does come with an amp sim of some kind, I just have not used it yet. I'm having a ton of fun....also working 4 other things with different people. Surf project, Stoner Doom Project,Dub Project and a Acoustic Desert Protect...there is lots of file sharing going back and forth. Thanks for the help.

[marqueemoon]

I think having the mids a bit less brassy on the cymbals will make the drums a bit more realistic. On a related note, that last crash needs to either ring out or have a more natural choked sound.

The rhythm guitars are definitely dark. You don't want them to overpower the lead stuff, but if they're a little brighter the L/R spread will be more apparent. What I'll often do is one more distorted/darker guitar down the middle and thinner sounding cleaner ones left and right.

This would be a fun recording to dirty up a bit.

[budda12ax7]

Thanks, I did a remix with the drums and added the AMPIRE guitar sim to the guitars....hmmmm. Closer, but not sure.