50th Anniversary of Sgt Pepper's...

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Re: 50th Anniversary of Sgt Pepper's...

Post by leokula » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:50 pm

FrankRay wrote: Why doesn't Help get its own hour, whilst Magical Mystery Tour and Yellow Submarine do???? Like, WTF?? Who designed that ludicrous thing?
"Help!" gets to even have its cover on it!
Jaguar > Jazzmaster :)

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Re: 50th Anniversary of Sgt Pepper's...

Post by NickD » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:28 pm

Meh, I'll stick with the slightly crackly original my dad gave me.

I see no point in re-buying them, ditto the Kinks, Stones, Pretty Things, Yardbirds et al he passed over too.

Cynical money making - and not even (just) for the people who made the songs in the first place, as two of them are dead, and the other two are too rich to appreciate the extra money, and don't have time to spend it.

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Re: 50th Anniversary of Sgt Pepper's...

Post by UlricvonCatalyst » Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:59 am

The thing that pisses me off most is the fact that the original multi-track masters were supposedly revisited, sonically enhanced and lovingly remixed as part of the last remaster/reissue project within the last decade or so. So was that version of Sgt. Pepper just a duffer? If so, I might be inclined to wait for the 100th anniversary edition, by which time the 'new' mix will presumably sound like it's coming out of a crystal radio.

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Re: 50th Anniversary of Sgt Pepper's...

Post by NickD » Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:41 am

Unless there is a cock up in the original recording of an album, (like the distorted mikes in Kind of Blue, although I don't think that has even been fixed in later remasters) then they should leave the original recordings alone. How it was originally released is how it was meant to sound, that's how it should stay, not endlessly remastered.

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Re: 50th Anniversary of Sgt Pepper's...

Post by StevenO » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:01 am

UlricvonCatalyst wrote:The thing that pisses me off most is the fact that the original multi-track masters were supposedly revisited, sonically enhanced and lovingly remixed as part of the last remaster/reissue project within the last decade or so. So was that version of Sgt. Pepper just a duffer? If so, I might be inclined to wait for the 100th anniversary edition, by which time the 'new' mix will presumably sound like it's coming out of a crystal radio.
I bought the Stereo boxset (well, it was bought for me) and it does indeed sound great. So you're probably onto something! :w00t:

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Re: 50th Anniversary of Sgt Pepper's...

Post by shadowplay » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:12 am

UlricvonCatalyst wrote: If so, I might be inclined to wait for the 100th anniversary edition, by which time the 'new' mix will presumably sound like it's coming out of a crystal radio.
Who'll do the mix? What would happen if a we had a childless Martin generation?

D
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Re: 50th Anniversary of Sgt Pepper's...

Post by budda12ax7 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:08 am

I think these classic bands or whomever holds the rights to the music can take people for their money over and over again. How many reissues or greatest hits comps of Led Zeppelin,Stones, Doors, The Who have come out in the past 20 years? I'm not against any of these bands, but these are all not really new versions. I would be interested in hearing demos, outtakes and live versions of these songs.

The recent (?) Led Zep stuff had demos and some outtakes or first mixes of well known songs, I thought that was interesting. The Hendrix estate (Jim's Sister) released some live concert material from time to time....most of it is actually really good. Albeit, the same songs we all have heard a million times, but a least it is a new version.

Lush released that monstrosity of a box set, I wonder if they made any coin off of it, but at least there was some demo and live stuff included.

I guess I have mixed feelings about this...But how many Doors greatest hits does the world need?

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Re: 50th Anniversary of Sgt Pepper's...

Post by sammynb » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:38 am

A guy I know works for the Huffington Post and this is how he celebrated the 50th.

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Re: 50th Anniversary of Sgt Pepper's...

Post by øøøøøøø » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:47 pm

Remixing that record is really silly IMO.

It's not a document of a band performing. It's a "tape piece," so to speak. For this reason, it is fundamentally altering the art to remix it. It was one of the most important pieces of 20th century music -- certainly not broken, certainly not in need of fixing.

Philosophically, this remix is no different to me than if someone were to re-create Ligeti's "Artikulation for Tape" to "update" the sound. Nobody does that... I wonder why?

of course, the original stereo mix of the record was weird in that way too, but at least it was contemporaneous to the original moment in time.

To borrow a quote from the esteemed Bill Wittman--

Original artist: "I want it to sound like the Dalai Lama chanting from a distant mountain top"

Original engineer: "I have an idea..."

Remix engineer: "see ? It's a vocal through a Leslie cabinet! Now you can tell! Isn't that great!"

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Re: 50th Anniversary of Sgt Pepper's...

Post by StevenO » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:59 pm

I think if they really wanted to do something interesting with the remix, they could have done a "Let It Be... Naked" kind of thing with Sgt Peppers. I don't know if this is controversial or not, but I much prefer "...Naked" to the original Let It Be. I always ranked that album pretty low until I heard the "...Naked" version. Not that I would want them to strip anything away from Sgt Peppers, but go big or go home, you know?

I have nothing against music being remixed, just so long as it isn't marketed as "forget that old thing, here's a new thing". It always reminds me of "it's just a regular Malibu Stacy doll but with a stupid cheap hat" "but she's got a new hat!"

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Re: 50th Anniversary of Sgt Pepper's...

Post by øøøøøøø » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:40 pm

Not me. Half the original artists are dead and can't consent. The art is complete and settled, and has been for half a century.

"Beethoven was deaf when he wrote those late string quartets. Let's just go in and fix this note here, this is probably what he would've done if he could hear..."

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Re: 50th Anniversary of Sgt Pepper's...

Post by FrankRay » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:33 pm

This, straight up. The technical limitations of 1967 are part and parcel of the recording, as are the mixing choices made at the time. Modern mixes are much cleaner and more spacious, but that doesn't make them better.

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Re: 50th Anniversary of Sgt Pepper's...

Post by UlricvonCatalyst » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:17 pm

Supposedly the real doozy in the new package is the 5.1 surround mix. I suppose that has its place having not been an option in 1967....which leads me to wonder if there was ever a quardraphonic version.

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Re: 50th Anniversary of Sgt Pepper's...

Post by StevenO » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:32 am

øøøøøøø wrote:Not me. Half the original artists are dead and can't consent. The art is complete and settled, and has been for half a century.

"Beethoven was deaf when he wrote those late string quartets. Let's just go in and fix this note here, this is probably what he would've done if he could hear..."
So long as the original still exists and is available, I wouldn't care if they did a dubstep remix of Beethoven. I don't have to buy it, I don't have to listen to it. It's not painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa, it's painting a moustache on a print.

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Re: 50th Anniversary of Sgt Pepper's...

Post by øøøøøøø » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:31 am

StevenO wrote:
øøøøøøø wrote:Not me. Half the original artists are dead and can't consent. The art is complete and settled, and has been for half a century.

"Beethoven was deaf when he wrote those late string quartets. Let's just go in and fix this note here, this is probably what he would've done if he could hear..."
So long as the original still exists and is available, I wouldn't care if they did a dubstep remix of Beethoven. I don't have to buy it, I don't have to listen to it. It's not painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa, it's painting a moustache on a print.
I'm sympathetic to this viewpoint but for one thing--

When a teenager goes to Spotify or Amazon to listen to Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band for the first time, and they click on the first link (why would they do any different?) which version will they hear?

Even for many adults, even those who may call themselves "Beatles fans" but particularly those who don't read music press obsessively, this version will simply replace the artist's original work. Usually without their knowledge or even awareness (on a conscious level). Or if they ARE aware, they're unlikely to understand the difference between this total remix and a much-less-invasive "digitally remastered" version.

In classical music there's the concept of urtext--a representation of a composition that's as close as possible to the composer's original intent. For Pepper's, the urtext is the original mono version. For me, it's a shame that many people will be fans of this album and never even hear that version.

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