Is Ed Sheeran really that good?

Favorite new record? Favorite old record? Got a band? Post it here.
User avatar
Beef Bonanza
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:11 pm

Re: Is Ed Sheeran really that good?

Post by Beef Bonanza » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:15 am

No, he isn't.

User avatar
mezcalhead
Admin
Admin
Posts: 11566
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:18 am
Location: Swampland

Re: Is Ed Sheeran really that good?

Post by mezcalhead » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:43 am

Betteridge's law, innit?
Distance-crunching honcho with echo unit.

User avatar
Embenny
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 10363
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

Re: Is Ed Sheeran really that good?

Post by Embenny » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:27 am

mezcalhead wrote:
mbene085 wrote: I'd argue that pop music's common denominator is that it is created, selected, produced, packaged, and marketed to appeal to the largest number of consumers and yield maximum profit for large corporations.
That's what Blixa Bargeld refers to as "industrial music" - music made by an industry for profit.

Pop music generally is much broader to me, essentially music that is enjoyable to listen to, or made with that intention. The Ramones are pop, for example, but not corporate pop as per your definition. The Cure - Love Cats is pop, Pornography not so much. Even stuff like Robert Johnson's blues was a form of pop - people were meant to have a good time listening to it.

It's not a term of derision when I use it, anyway.
I can understand that perspective. By that definition, Mozart was pop in his day, as was Louis Armstrong...pretty much everything beyond dissonant experimental music could be.

I think, especially given his recording and production experience, Steve was probably referring to "industrial music" in that quote, since he actively pursued Nirvana to record their next project after Nevermind. At that point, they clearly had created a bridge between Grunge and pop as you'd call it.

Still, Ed Sheeran belongs way too much to the "industrial music" category for my taste. I view it as "manufactured music" in the way that you might compare a handcrafted decorative bowl made by a ceramic artist to one churned out by the thousands in a factory. It serves its purpose, but it's not at all the same thing.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

User avatar
Jaguar018
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8045
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Burbs of Washington DC

Re: Is Ed Sheeran really that good?

Post by Jaguar018 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:33 am

mbene085 wrote:I think, especially given his recording and production experience, Steve was probably referring to "industrial music" in that quote, since he actively pursued Nirvana to record their next project after Nevermind. At that point, they clearly had created a bridge between Grunge and pop as you'd call it.

Still, Ed Sheeran belongs way too much to the "industrial music" category for my taste. I view it as "manufactured music" in the way that you might compare a handcrafted decorative bowl made by a ceramic artist to one churned out by the thousands in a factory. It serves its purpose, but it's not at all the same thing.
I like how in order to clarify what "pop" means, you add another the niche music category of 'industrial.' When I think of "industrial pop" I think of Ministry or something. :D

User avatar
shadowplay
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 25930
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:30 am
Location: Glasgow. Scotland
Contact:

Re: Is Ed Sheeran really that good?

Post by shadowplay » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:52 am

I think this is unfair on Ed Sheeran, I might personally think his music is less interesting than mould but from the outside his music seems pretty different to the sort of music that's focus grouped up the wazoo. It's unchallenging, it's a bland but I think it's more of an attempt at being inoffensively entertaining than it is at making millions.

Ed seems to have more in common with wedding bands and buskers* than he does with Simon Cowell...says someone who doesn't watch X-Factor and knows two or three Sheeran songs. To be honest I have him several rungs down the cynical ladder than most of the biggest selling artists with their plastic beefs and feuds, armies of image consultants, multi million pound videos and pathetic attempts at controversy. Ed Sheeran has pretty much no 'image', you could say that no image is an image but it's still one step from the norm in that market.

D

*both hateful things to me but lotsa folk like them
Are you loathsome tonight?

User avatar
mezcalhead
Admin
Admin
Posts: 11566
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:18 am
Location: Swampland

Re: Is Ed Sheeran really that good?

Post by mezcalhead » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:36 am

Jaguar018 wrote:I like how in order to clarify what "pop" means, you add another the niche music category of 'industrial.' When I think of "industrial pop" I think of Ministry or something.
That was me muddying the waters from the previous page with Blixa Bargeld's complaint about EN being labelled as "industrial".
Distance-crunching honcho with echo unit.

User avatar
Embenny
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 10363
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

Re: Is Ed Sheeran really that good?

Post by Embenny » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:39 am

mezcalhead wrote:
Jaguar018 wrote:I like how in order to clarify what "pop" means, you add another the niche music category of 'industrial.' When I think of "industrial pop" I think of Ministry or something.
That was me muddying the waters from the previous page with Blixa Bargeld's complaint about EN being labelled as "industrial".
Yeah, I was using terms that were introduced by the post I was replying to. Trying to establish a common language in order to clarify my interpretation of that Albini quote.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

User avatar
shadowplay
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 25930
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:30 am
Location: Glasgow. Scotland
Contact:

Re: Is Ed Sheeran really that good?

Post by shadowplay » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:52 am

Jaguar018 wrote: I like how in order to clarify what "pop" means, you add another the niche music category of 'industrial.' When I think of "industrial pop" I think of Ministry or something.
Yeah but that's a rockist perversion of the original genre intention* brought to you by the sort of hairy plums that want metal guitarz with everything.

What Blixa was referring to was music created through a process similar to the creation of any mainstream consumer good, where they work towards a targeted customer, have a marketing plan, cost the project and might even build in obsolescence. I often feel the whole 'feat' thing is like cross marketing or cross branding of consumer goods.

Hell that might even fit the whole add guitarz to electronic music and call it Industrial so bros and dudes like it.

D

*as a music of process, of componets and of environment. Not metal with the odd synth.
Are you loathsome tonight?

User avatar
Embenny
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 10363
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

Re: Is Ed Sheeran really that good?

Post by Embenny » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:59 am

shadowplay wrote:I think this is unfair on Ed Sheeran, I might personally think his music is less interesting than mould but from the outside his music seems pretty different to the sort of music that's focus grouped up the wazoo. It's unchallenging, it's a bland but I think it's more of an attempt at being inoffensively entertaining than it is at making millions.

Ed seems to have more in common with wedding bands and buskers* than he does with Simon Cowell...says someone who doesn't watch X-Factor and knows two or three Sheeran songs. To be honest I have him several rungs down the cynical ladder than most of the biggest selling artists with their plastic beefs and feuds, armies of image consultants, multi million pound videos and pathetic attempts at controversy. Ed Sheeran has pretty much no 'image', you could say that no image is an image but it's still one step from the norm in that market.

D

*both hateful things to me but lotsa folk like them
The thing about being "inoffensively entertaining" (a great description of it, by the way) is that the music was more or less hammered into that shape at multiple stages of the process. However much of the songs he's writing himself, the shape of the final recording is the result of multiple "fixers" "tweaking" (rewriting, re-arranging) parts until it reaches maximal appeal to the largest number of consumers. It doesn't happen by accident, and that's the least appealing part of it to me.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

User avatar
mezcalhead
Admin
Admin
Posts: 11566
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:18 am
Location: Swampland

Re: Is Ed Sheeran really that good?

Post by mezcalhead » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:28 am

Yes, I think there is probably a lot more focus grouping goes on during the production of Sheeran's music than David suspects.

However, I seem to be in the unique and enviable position of not actually being able to bring any Sheeran tracks to mind, so I am working off my vague memory of how I felt when I think I heard one, which may very well be highly inaccurate.
Distance-crunching honcho with echo unit.

User avatar
UlricvonCatalyst
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 7193
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:05 am
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: Is Ed Sheeran really that good?

Post by UlricvonCatalyst » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:48 am

^ Since we've gone down the pedantic semantic route I'd like to lay claim to also being in that "unique" position.

It seems kind of self-evident that, in today's music biz, there's no way some maverick who wasn't being carefully steered could end up in the position of having the top 10 (at the time of the thread starting). Somebody probably saw a gap in the market for a star with "pretty much no image" and Ed, being the first one through the door who fitted the mould, happened to be the lucky recipient of their ready-made campaign.

User avatar
shadowplay
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 25930
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:30 am
Location: Glasgow. Scotland
Contact:

Re: Is Ed Sheeran really that good?

Post by shadowplay » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:10 pm

I thought he'd released a lot of music independently, toured on his own and was discovered at an open mic, at least this is the general preamble you tend to read about him.

I really don't give a shit anyway if somone is manufactured,writes their own songs, or can play an instrument, only that I like the result. Nice Ed fails that test but I also think he appears (from my limited knowledge) more of a self made artist than he's given credit for here and him working with Grime artists was a pretty unusual step for someone of his musical type. I guess you could argue he does to grime what adding a bucket of milk foam goes to coffee but it's not a dead obvious connection to me.

D
Are you loathsome tonight?

User avatar
UlricvonCatalyst
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 7193
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:05 am
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: Is Ed Sheeran really that good?

Post by UlricvonCatalyst » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:28 pm

I'm genuinely blissfully ignorant of his biographical info, but he wouldn't be the first star to become an overnight sensation after ten years in the biz, would he?

I guess he's young enough that genre-hopping comes more naturally to him than it would to the likes of me, but I don't really see him 'collaborating' with grime artists as any more of a big deal than the likes of J-Lo working with yer Skrillex or whoever; if you want to be cynical about it - which I usually do - it's an easy and well-trodden route for fans of the mainstream half of the equation to delude themselves that they're a bit more cutting-edge than they really are.

User avatar
Despot
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5759
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:11 am
Location: Wexford, Ireland

Re: Is Ed Sheeran really that good?

Post by Despot » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:20 am

On a slightly related note I find that the ability to select an 'anthem' song (from Spotify) on Tinder is a good way to determine who to avoid. The ubiquity of Ed Sheeran 'Shape of You/Castle on the hill' as ladies anthem song suggests that he has a very strong female quality. And it's helped me to skip past a lot of wasted time by swiping left as soon as I see any mention of Ed Sheeran.

He claims (legit) heritage with my home town in Wexford, and I admire how dogged and workmanlike he is about what he does - he unashamedly aims to be the highest selling artists and regardless of what I might think of his music he's doing something that I'm certainly not capable of doing. Fair play to him.

As Todd said on page one, this isn't a reflection of some music snobbery on my part - I like some stuff that is pretty run of the mill (I have a weakness for old Springsteen that's all tied up with happy childhood memories), I just think that popular culture's taste is up it's own arsehole right now and I'd rather not contribute to it.

User avatar
Despot
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5759
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:11 am
Location: Wexford, Ireland

Re: Is Ed Sheeran really that good?

Post by Despot » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:23 am

shadowplay wrote: Nice Ed fails that test but I also think he appears (from my limited knowledge) more of a self made artist than he's given credit for here and him working with Grime artists was a pretty unusual step for someone of his musical type.
D
That's a good point David - whatever about his music, he grafts, and I'll give him tonnes of credit for being a grafter.

There's footage somewhere of him playing guitar on the main street of my home town when he was in his mid-teens (his grandmother is from my town and he apparently spent plenty of summers there) - I'd believe the stories that go around about him playing any street corner or pub that would have him on the way up. I might dislike his music, but anyone who works like a dog for success deserves credit when it comes.

Post Reply