Another Shoegaze-in-a-Box?

[fuzzjunkie]

Collision Devices - Black Hole Symmetry

https://reverb.com/item/17693483-collis ... -in-france

The Black Hole Symmetry is Modulated Delay / Space Reverb / Destruction Fuzz pedal.

For those that thought Death By Audio’s Echo Dream didn’t go far enough? I seem to remember another echo-fuzz pedal? Probably EQD? Then there’s the Gilmour pedal that’s a Big Muff Leslie Echorette or something?

It would be handy if you’re only taking one pedal to the Jam, man.

[Shadoweclipse13]

Yeah, Keeley's Dark Side (70's Gilmour-in-a-box) sounds good, but it's a bit limiting that you can only use delay or modulation, not delay AND modulation. That said, the Collision Black Hole sounds really good!! The all-in-one boxes aren't my thing, but I could totally see using something like that live for sure.

[fuzzjunkie]

It does have cool sounds. The interface is whack.

I mean it looks cool with all the knobs, but it’s black. The knobs are very close to the foot switches. That might be okay on the floor at home or on a desk top, but not on a stage.

[Shadoweclipse13]

I love the way it looks, but yeah I don't like knobs that close to the footswitches.

[leokula]

I love the way it looks, but yeah I don't like knobs that close to the footswitches.

Man, I hadn't noticed that... now I can barely breath when I look at this pedal.

[Shadoweclipse13]

I love the way it looks, but yeah I don't like knobs that close to the footswitches.

Man, I hadn't noticed that... now I can barely breath when I look at this pedal.

I think it would be great as a desktop effect, like for studio console work or a synth, but I would just worry that my clumsy ass would break a pot. That said, you could always take a page from Troy Van Leeuwen and wear pointy toed shoes while playing too

[leokula]

I think it would be great as a desktop effect, like for studio console work or a synth, but I would just worry that my clumsy ass would break a pot. That said, you could always take a page from Troy Van Leeuwen and wear pointy toed shoes while playing too

Yeah man, there's no way I could step on it without smashing something, specially on a dark stage.

[øøøøøøø]

At some point, "pedal" becomes a very inelegant form factor for accomplishing certain things.

[Shadoweclipse13]

At some point, "pedal" becomes a very inelegant form factor for accomplishing certain things.

Agreed. I've been thinking about Eurorack to use with guitar and bass, just to try something different...

[øøøøøøø]

Pedals were invented as a cheap, simple, portable, battery-powered way to expand the palette of the electric guitar-- often by approximaing, for low $$$, techniques that were originally accomplished through more-expensive or more inconvenient means (loud overdriven amps, tape delay, tape flanging/phasing, etc).

Except that in 2019, pedals no longer always quite so cheap. And we often-as-not assemble them into massive pedalboards that are not quite so portable. And then we require AC power, as batteries become too troublesome. And as evidenced by the pedal under discussion here, they're not always quite so simple individually, and certainly not in aggregate (when considering the average pedalboard rig).

At some point, it becomes difficult not to wonder whether the tail might not be wagging the dog a bit, in many cases.

I've really become cognizant of this lately, having gone back to a very small pedalboard rig.

Otherwise I'd seriously consider assembling a small rack system, or even exploring a single floor-based multi-effects unit. The latter is a compromise, but for most things, I've come to see pedals as a compromise. There are a few main exceptions: Volume (obviously), fuzz, boost/overdrive, and filter effects (wah, envelope follower, etc). I like pedals for those.

But there is no "delay pedal" that truly excites me compared to other means of achieving delay, for instance. Likewise for modulation effects. Almost everything else besides volume, fuzz, boost, and filters I prefer being accomplished through other means.

[shadowplay]

Pedals were invented as a cheap, simple, portable, battery-powered way to expand the palette of the electric guitar-- often by approximaing, for low $$$, techniques that were originally accomplished through more-expensive or more inconvenient means (loud overdriven amps, tape delay, tape flanging/phasing, etc).

Except that in 2019, pedals no longer always quite so cheap. And we often-as-not assemble them into massive pedalboards that are not quite so portable. And then we require AC power, as batteries become too troublesome. And as evidenced by the pedal under discussion here, they're not always quite so simple individually, and certainly not in aggregate (when considering the average pedalboard rig).

At some point, it becomes difficult not to wonder whether the tail might not be wagging the dog a bit, in many cases.

I've really become cognizant of this lately, having gone back to a very small pedalboard rig.

Otherwise I'd seriously consider assembling a small rack system, or even exploring a single floor-based multi-effects unit. The latter is a compromise, but for most things, I've come to see pedals as a compromise. There are a few main exceptions: Volume (obviously), fuzz, boost/overdrive, and filter effects (wah, envelope follower, etc). I like pedals for those.

But there is no "delay pedal" that truly excites me compared to other means of achieving delay, for instance. Likewise for modulation effects. Almost everything else besides volume, fuzz, boost, and filters I prefer being accomplished through other means.

Interesting, I often wonder if the records I'm buying are the product of the mega boards and the latests pedal gadgets. Generally when I see someone live and remember to look I tend to see boards of tried and trusted pedals that are not too different than most folk had in the 80's. I'll qualify that by saying I tend to see smaller and poorer bands most of whom seem to use cheap and fairly generic everything. What tends to be different is the role of guitar and the makeup or even the deconstruction of the band.

I've often wondered where the guitar demo dude style feeds into actual music you can buy in a shop and I feel much the same about the NASA pedalboards, which I feel might well be confined to formless noodling on soundcloud and playing in church in the US.

I'm guessing here, so feel free to correct me but I get the feeling that pedal fetishism has moved beyond music making and into leisure or just collecting which is fine and all that I collect stuff too but it's interesting to me.

It could be that I just don't fish in the right waters but I don't see so many of the super hot topic pedals out and about while synth brands like Arturia seem to have had incredible impact on contemporary music.

I'll also say that instinctively the very idea of any X in a box user quite unappetising and I'd probably not even bother checking out their music if I know in advance. I might be overthinking this but I generally feel the misusers are more interesting than the users, the people who took equipment and used it in a way the designer never really intended.

D

[Jaguar018]

Pedals were invented as a cheap, simple, portable, battery-powered way to expand the palette of the electric guitar-- often by approximaing, for low $$$, techniques that were originally accomplished through more-expensive or more inconvenient means (loud overdriven amps, tape delay, tape flanging/phasing, etc).

Except that in 2019, pedals no longer always quite so cheap. And we often-as-not assemble them into massive pedalboards that are not quite so portable. And then we require AC power, as batteries become too troublesome. And as evidenced by the pedal under discussion here, they're not always quite so simple individually, and certainly not in aggregate (when considering the average pedalboard rig).

At some point, it becomes difficult not to wonder whether the tail might not be wagging the dog a bit, in many cases.

I've often wondered where the guitar demo dude style feeds into actual music you can buy in a shop and I feel much the same about the NASA pedalboards, which I feel might well be confined to formless noodling on soundcloud and playing in church in the US.

I'm guessing here, so feel free to correct me but I get the feeling that pedal fetishism has moved beyond music making and into leisure or just collecting which is fine and all that I collect stuff too but it's interesting to me.

Yeah, I think pedal collecting for the sake of cool pedals has totally become a thing. Our old punching bag, The Gear Page, is full of junkies chasing the latest and greatest pedal big and small. You have bargain chasers, clone fans, wait list builders, world-wide searchers, and ultra-rare chasers. The breadth and depth of knowledge and connections is impressive. The pedal builder forums are also full of some pretty talented people making cool stuff.

It's pretty fun to see what all these creative people are coming up with. It certainly can contribute to enhancing music, but generally I just see them being relegated to enhancing unappealing youtube videos.

[øøøøøøø]

I do share many of your feelings and hunches on this issue, David.

I hope it’s not too pointed to sat that, in many cases, the collection of rare and boutique pedals appears at risk of evolving into just another area of “conspicuous consumption as a hobby, laundered through ostensible music-making”— conceptually identical to the oft-detested PRS-collecting attorney, just with a different fashion sense.

Of course, I see such things as rather harmless when considering the myriad other ways people could spend their time and money. But I do think it’s generally-healthy to be honest with ourselves. Buying a pedal is not going to do more to facilitate musical inspiration than trying something new with what we’ve already got access to, and certainly not more than collaborating with someone else on some music.

[somanytoys]

I have to say, it has definitely become that to me over the years. Of course it started out with "hey, which pedal is making that sound?!?" It was all about getting the pedals that make the sounds I was most interested in.

Eventually, it became as much about something being a "first run", a "last run" or now discontinued, and sometimes it's the recreation in pedal form of something rackmount that has long been discontinued. I'm guilty of all of those, but (of course I think) it's usually some pretty cool stuff that I choose to buy. Stuff I buy and I doubt I'll part with anytime soon, if ever (I'm going to have a really, really big coffin, and be cremated so that I don't take up as much room in the coffin).

Over time, technology, capability and a resurgence in demand/availability of components and things have caused or allowed the sounds improve, as well as the builds and aesthetics, from the creative to the innovative, on both counts. Some of the capabilities of pedals are astounding now, and they're coming out with amazing pedals faster than I can afford them.

It's interesting that just about 20 years ago, nobody was interested in most of the nice, vintage stuff (but not quite like '60s vintage), to the point that most of it was relatively cheap. But the collection of vintage everything has skyrocketed, along with the prices, and I think that probably the proudest collectors are those of the vintage items. Some pedals may do the same thing or more or better now, but there's just that vibe and typically feel of the older components, the sounds from the older circuitry of an era.

Playing with other people is almost always the apex of it - learning, bouncing ideas off, meshing. But sometimes you don't have that, for whatever reason, and devices can make a big difference in almost feeling like you are. I use a drum machine and a looper to record bass, to play guitar along with them, and that's had to stand in for interacting with other musicians as much. One day that will change, but this is keeping me sane for the moment (such that my sanity is).

I'm not sure if I could be considered more of a collector or a hoarder, but I'm okay with that either way. I don't think it should be offensive to anyone even if they were to be compared to a PRS collecting attorney, as long as they're doing it for the right reasons (not just monetary value appreciation). I try to play with most of what I have, but some things don't see the light of day often enough, let alone electricity. I hope to change that also one day, and have all or at least most of my stuff accessible, hooked up and able to choose & use instantly, or at least quickly.

As I've said on other threads, my whole life, I haven't had any other hobbies, it's always been music. I don't hunt, fish, golf, tennis, work on cars or motorcycles...this is my only thing. Personally, I gotta feed the passion.

[LossyShades]

I like that this pedal is conceptual and testing the relationship between different sounds. Knobs has a cool demo on this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgDlf_Pp6os