Replacing My Amp With A Cab Simulator Pedal

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Replacing My Amp With A Cab Simulator Pedal

Post by X-Ray Spex » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:14 am

Wasn't sure whether to post this in the Amp section or this section.

Basically I want to ditch my amp (Hiwatt G112R) and go direct into the P.A for live gigs as I'm sick of lugging it around. Ideally I want to go guitar + pedalboard + Amp Sim Pedal + DI into the P.A.

Has anyone done this and what pedal are you using as an Amp Sim buffer between the P.A and the rest of your rig to mimic an amplifier? I've been looking at the Two Note Torpedo C.A.B but I'm not sure if it's for me.
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Re: Replacing My Amp With A Cab Simulator Pedal

Post by fever606 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:46 am

I'm really intrigued by the new CabZeus Mono from GFI...

Image

I like what I've heard of it's big brother...

The I've also heard good things about the Digitech CabDryVR, but never played with one...

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Re: Replacing My Amp With A Cab Simulator Pedal

Post by somanytoys » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:01 am

I'm not doing exactly that, but I have a Neunabor Iconoclast. It's probably less expensive than the other ones, and it may or may not be as good, just another option. It's stereo in & out (1/4", no XLR), with an 1/8" headphone jack and has a noise gate, and it's able to be manipulated more using their software.

I use it primarily for headphones at the moment. I originally tried going from a couple of foundation pedals into it, but the sound wasn't all that great, so instead I send the signals from my pedals into 2 small amps (Bugera T5's), then TRS cables from the headphone out jacks of the amps (the jacks are set for stereo cables) into the Iconoclast, and the headphones plugged into the Iconoclast's headphone jack.

It's possible that an even smaller amp head can be used, if you want to use one, because even with those light little 5w amps, the volume can only be turned up to about 2 or maybe 3, or it overloads the Iconoclast. But the sound of the tube amp makes a huge difference with the sound. Probably just about any tiny amp would do**, although I'd personally recommend tube, not solid state. (**edit - the amp would have to have a headphone jack)

I haven't done it yet, but I'm going try to send the out leads from the Iconoclast into my PA, and see how that compares to using the speakers with the amps. Kind of funny I haven't tried that yet, but it's pretty much just served a specific purpose so far.

Good luck. Let us know what you go with and how it works out.
-David

It's a boost booster, to boost your boost - it makes your tone much muchier.

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Re: Replacing My Amp With A Cab Simulator Pedal

Post by mbene085 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:10 am

What's your budget? It's $300 more than the cabzeus mono, but the Line6 HX Stomp is small, has amazing cab emulation, and an absolute ton of current ("next") gen amp models. I use both a Kemper and Fractal AX8, which the Helix line essentially matches for tonal quality, but the Hx Stomp is so much smaller and cheaper, it's ridiculous. It's got the tones of the full size version that's triple the cost, but with fewer buttons and knobs for hardware-controlled tweaking is all.

Even if you started out using it "just" for cab emulation, you'd probably quickly find new and better tones among the amp and effects it includes that would more than get you your money's worth.

I like working with a bit of a larger format device, and have no complaints about my Kemper and AX8, but the price:performance ratio of the HX Stomp is objectively better. I've gone full digital amp-wise for rehearsal, recording and performance which I never found acceptable until this current generation of high end modelers.

If you're looking at the cabzeus and thinking of going direct/ampless, you owe it to yourself to at least spend a good amount of time auditioning the HX.

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Re: Replacing My Amp With A Cab Simulator Pedal

Post by somanytoys » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:16 am

Wow. That is a little expensive, but if it's that good (like you said), it's a hell of a lot for what you can replace with it.

Pretty impressive. I may have to take one of those for a spin one day...
-David

It's a boost booster, to boost your boost - it makes your tone much muchier.

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Re: Replacing My Amp With A Cab Simulator Pedal

Post by cestlamort » Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:41 pm

The sansamp character pedals seem cool. I’ve used the blonde for recording and as a backup on tour. The Leeds one might fit the bill. https://reverb.com/item/21219441-tech-2 ... dium=share

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Re: Replacing My Amp With A Cab Simulator Pedal

Post by peterherman » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:45 pm

I run my board into a Mooer Radar for "kid's asleep practice" times. It works pretty well, especially since I actually bought and loaded a few Celestion Blue IRs. I definitely agree with the notion of finding a preamp that works with an IR loader device, though. When I run the whole shebang into a Joyo ACTone (clone of a Sansamp Vox character pedal) it definitely sounds closer.

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Re: Replacing My Amp With A Cab Simulator Pedal

Post by fortytwo » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:58 am

You could also go The Amp route, as in the one from Milkman Sound

But those Line 6 HX Stomps look really sweet too.

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Re: Replacing My Amp With A Cab Simulator Pedal

Post by somanytoys » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:39 am

So I did briefly plug out of the Iconoclast outs into the PA (still from the amps), to check those sounds against the sounds of going out of the speaker cabs. It sounded really good, I was impressed that the sounds were so close, and able to be so manipulated on the Iconoclast, closed 4x12, open 4x12 and on down to single open back (bass knob), along with the mid and treble knob treatments. Very flexible. I'm sure I don't have the Iconoclast set to the optimal settings, but I could definitely see doing that as an alternative when it's necessary or even just more convenient.

It would definitely be more ideal with something like the Line 6 HX, that has an amp sim as well as a cab sim (built in effects is a bonus), but all in all, those Bugera T5's are pretty small and have a good sound, so it wouldn't be that much of a pain to have to lug them along as well. The 2 of those probably make up most of the cost difference for the HX, and if you consider speaker costs on top of that...

Maybe one day, it does seem really nice. But I do love all of my tube amps and speakers.
-David

It's a boost booster, to boost your boost - it makes your tone much muchier.

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Re: Replacing My Amp With A Cab Simulator Pedal

Post by X-Ray Spex » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:53 am

Thanks for all of your input and responses guys, after careful consideration (seriously, the bar was set insanely high with your suggestions) I think I'm going to go with the Cabzeus Mono. I probably won't actually be able to get it for a little while but I'll be sure to post a review etc in this thread when I get it.
''It's not what you play, it's what you play'' - Troy Van Leeuwen

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Re: Replacing My Amp With A Cab Simulator Pedal

Post by somanytoys » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:29 am

If you can afford to, you may want to wait a while before you sell your amp, assuming that's what you meant by "ditching" it, and not just not lugging it around to shows/practices anymore.

I'm going to doing try this a little bit more, at least just for fun, using a Sansamp VT DI for the bass (when it comes in) and the Iconoclast for guitar ; the drums are already going out of a Beatbuddy into the pa. It seems like it would be so uncluttered and uncomplicated...
-David

It's a boost booster, to boost your boost - it makes your tone much muchier.

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Re: Replacing My Amp With A Cab Simulator Pedal

Post by tdbajus » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:03 am

I have yet to find anything that is very much fun to play except the UAD tweed deluxe model, which is lots of fun, but maybe a bit inconvenient.

I think the obvious answer here is use a smaller amp. I have a few that i LOVE recording through and if you are playing a good club, the sound guy will buy you a drink.

Things you might want to try out:

1) A no-brainer for fender users is to get a good Champ (or vibro champ!). I put a new OT in mine, and after changing the values of the EQ caps to the same as a Princeton/Deluxe, it sounds as good as an amp can sound. You might not even want to change the OT if you like it raw and ratty, but I love the buttery class A chime.

For tweed bonus, you can get a push-pull switch from weber that lets you pull the tone stack out, and you basically wind up with a tweed champ. If you do a Vibro Champ, the trem still works!

2) I have a Marshall JTM-1. Does a little better with higher gain distortion, imho, but I like a long tail phase inverter. the 12AU7 in power section sounds good, but I have a 12BH7 in there and I haven't set fire to anything yet. Despite having a long tail PI, it's significantly quieter than my Champ.

I also have a Kendrick Solo7, which I am really liking. Also uses a 12BH7, but can run two for a combined 14 watts. I believe Blackstar also made a version of this, with even more features.

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Re: Replacing My Amp With A Cab Simulator Pedal

Post by X-Ray Spex » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:15 am

somanytoys wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:29 am
If you can afford to, you may want to wait a while before you sell your amp, assuming that's what you meant by "ditching" it, and not just not lugging it around to shows/practices anymore.

I'm going to doing try this a little bit more, at least just for fun, using a Sansamp VT DI for the bass (when it comes in) and the Iconoclast for guitar ; the drums are already going out of a Beatbuddy into the pa. It seems like it would be so uncluttered and uncomplicated...
Yeah I'm still going to be hanging onto it for recording / as a backup but I'm hoping to eventually phase it out of live use. I travel a lot for gigs and one less amp in an already loaded car would make a hell of a difference, plus I love the idea of slinging my whole rig in a backpack and just bailing onto a plane etc.
I have yet to find anything that is very much fun to play except the UAD tweed deluxe model, which is lots of fun, but maybe a bit inconvenient.

I think the obvious answer here is use a smaller amp. I have a few that i LOVE recording through and if you are playing a good club, the sound guy will buy you a drink.

Things you might want to try out:

1) A no-brainer for fender users is to get a good Champ (or vibro champ!). I put a new OT in mine, and after changing the values of the EQ caps to the same as a Princeton/Deluxe, it sounds as good as an amp can sound. You might not even want to change the OT if you like it raw and ratty, but I love the buttery class A chime.

For tweed bonus, you can get a push-pull switch from weber that lets you pull the tone stack out, and you basically wind up with a tweed champ. If you do a Vibro Champ, the trem still works!

2) I have a Marshall JTM-1. Does a little better with higher gain distortion, imho, but I like a long tail phase inverter. the 12AU7 in power section sounds good, but I have a 12BH7 in there and I haven't set fire to anything yet. Despite having a long tail PI, it's significantly quieter than my Champ.

I also have a Kendrick Solo7, which I am really liking. Also uses a 12BH7, but can run two for a combined 14 watts. I believe Blackstar also made a version of this, with even more features.
I do like the idea of a smaller amp but I think the main sentence to be stressed here is a ''Good Club''. I frequently play ratty/dive clubs so I'd be fairly wary about backlash from awkward soundguys with miking etc. Seems far easier just to DI and set it up myself from there. But totally valid advice and it's something I'll keep in mind.
''It's not what you play, it's what you play'' - Troy Van Leeuwen

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Re: Replacing My Amp With A Cab Simulator Pedal

Post by tdbajus » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:09 am

X-Ray Spex wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:15 am
I do like the idea of a smaller amp but I think the main sentence to be stressed here is a ''Good Club''. I frequently play ratty/dive clubs so I'd be fairly wary about backlash from awkward soundguys with miking etc. Seems far easier just to DI and set it up myself from there. But totally valid advice and it's something I'll keep in mind.
I would fear that if the PA wasn't good enough to mic an amp, it won't do much better with a DI. It's easy enough to bring one of those cheap but excellent Sennheiser 609 mics that work great just hanging off the handle of the amp.

I have been pretty envious of Mick Harvey though, since I read his entire rig is a tele, a sansamp, and two god damned cables. Bastard.
http://www.bad-seed.org/~cave/interview ... gp_mh.html

I know what you mean about the travel rigs though, which is why I do love that Vibro Champ- fits easily in an overhead compartment.

ZT amps are pretty nice sounding, and loud as hell, and even smaller than the Champ. They, imho, sound like butt with distortion, but sounds pretty great with an Xotic compressor for a bit extra sustain.

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Re: Replacing My Amp With A Cab Simulator Pedal

Post by X-Ray Spex » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:16 am

tdbajus wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:09 am
X-Ray Spex wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:15 am
I do like the idea of a smaller amp but I think the main sentence to be stressed here is a ''Good Club''. I frequently play ratty/dive clubs so I'd be fairly wary about backlash from awkward soundguys with miking etc. Seems far easier just to DI and set it up myself from there. But totally valid advice and it's something I'll keep in mind.
I would fear that if the PA wasn't good enough to mic an amp, it won't do much better with a DI. It's easy enough to bring one of those cheap but excellent Sennheiser 609 mics that work great just hanging off the handle of the amp.

I have been pretty envious of Mick Harvey though, since I read his entire rig is a tele, a sansamp, and two god damned cables. Bastard.
http://www.bad-seed.org/~cave/interview ... gp_mh.html

I know what you mean about the travel rigs though, which is why I do love that Vibro Champ- fits easily in an overhead compartment.

ZT amps are pretty nice sounding, and loud as hell, and even smaller than the Champ. They, imho, sound like butt with distortion, but sounds pretty great with an Xotic compressor for a bit extra sustain.
That's a good point, might just go Vibro-Champ and see how it works out. Although I really would need something that can handle gain/overdrive without getting blown out and buzzy. That Sansamp pedal he mentioned is super expensive these days it seems, probably helped along by him to boot.
''It's not what you play, it's what you play'' - Troy Van Leeuwen

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