Talk me out of buying a Klone, please!

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Klone, please!

Post by zhivago » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:50 pm

øøøøøøø wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:10 am
I only REALLY know how useful/suitable a new piece of equipment is after I've used it for awhile. It's very easy to be seduced by things you'd imagine will work well... or to overlook seemingly-insignificant traits that turn out to matter a lot.
+1000000!

Sometimes it takes me over a year to finally realise something is just not working for me. :)
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Klone, please!

Post by Maggieo » Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:03 pm

"If you don't like the Klon clone your playing now, you're not going to like the Klon."

"6 Pedal Myths"
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Klone, please!

Post by Bert Camenbert » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:20 am

Some people argue that the gold and silver klons don't sound exactly the same, or that the horsey klon is different from the other klons. ::)

At this point, when it's down to subtleties and nitpicking, it doesn't really matter, because the way you play, the place you're playing in and the other gear you'll be using will have a bigger impact on the tone than the differences between pedals.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Klone, please!

Post by øøøøøøø » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:20 pm

I've never played a gold Centaur for more than a second. I couldn't possibly tell you whether it was substantively different from a silver one without having done at least a tour with it.

I toured with my regular silver centaur since buying it new in 2008 up until about 2 years ago, when I made a smaller touring board around a KTR.

Having played extensively with the KTR for 2 years with several different groups, I finally feel like I have a pretty decent handle on the ways in which they're different.

I like both and can use both. They don't behave identically. But I can get pretty much what I need out of both

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Klone, please!

Post by mackerelmint » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:59 pm

Oh, the JHS guy.

Well, apart from the fact that he's got a vested interest in claiming that everything can be cloned exactly while he sells his "neve" guitar preamp pedals which contain circuits that scarcely resemble anything in a 1073, him citing McDonald's delivery as evidence of the human intelligence it takes to make a perfect clone is pretty funny.

Considering that there's variation between two of the same item, it doesn't surprise me that Brad hears differences in the stuff he makes compared to the originals. Though it makes me wonder if the stuff he's made doesn't actually tend to fall within the "range" of difference that the originals exhibit. Maybe part of those originals' sound is age, and the stuff he made will get there in time. I dunno. Far be it from me to tell him his own experiences are wrong.

I just think the JHS guy is a dingus of questionable integrity.

PS: don't buy a klone (there, I'm helping).
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Klone, please!

Post by kgbAttack » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:25 am

mackerelmint wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:59 pm
Oh, the JHS guy.

Well, apart from the fact that he's got a vested interest in claiming that everything can be cloned exactly while he sells his "neve" guitar preamp pedals which contain circuits that scarcely resemble anything in a 1073, him citing McDonald's delivery as evidence of the human intelligence it takes to make a perfect clone is pretty funny.

I just think the JHS guy is a dingus of questionable integrity.
It is possible that anything on youtube is actually promotional material these days, but on "That Pedal Show" Dan & Mick have several episodes on Klon and clones. While there are, no doubt, differences, there are some of these clones that sound closer to the actual Klon than others, and they give their ranking in terms of tonal proximity (I think Ryra Klone was the one mentioned to be the closest, but not their favorite, in fact).

For those who owned/played it: what is it that makes the Centaur so special that most clones can't achieve?

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Klone, please!

Post by Maggieo » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:32 am

That has everything to do with sentimentality and nothing to do with performance, though.

You don't buy it because of its specs, you buy it because of its provenance. Conformation bias may tell you that it's "better."

Ultimately, all of this stuff is subjective. Josh is right about duplicating circuits- it's dead easy to do. But it's impossible to duplicate "gestalt," because that lives in the mind of the person perceiving things.

A 70s Fender is still 95% likely to be utter crap (I played dozens and dozens of them in the 1980s), but the market is based on scarcity, and that scarcity drives an irrational belief that somehow those shitty old guitars are much better than they actually are, or, "the one I bought is great and has M@J@!!"
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Klone, please!

Post by shadowplay » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:10 am

øøøøøøø wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:41 pm
No hard feelings if anyone thinks I'm out of my mind for what I'm about to say, BTW. But here goes--
I don't, the internet is full of people telling other people opinions on things they have no personal experience of, have never owned and are never likely to own but who have watched a video or heard someone talking about it on the bus. With the internet everyone is a flat capped bar-room expert, you are both speaking from experience and also displayed credibility and standing prior to making your statement.

I get it with cars all the time with walk-ups in the street (always men) all too keen to tell you their opinion on your car which they've never owned, never driven, nor never owned nor driven anything of parity. They have owned a diesel Vauxhall Astra however, watched Top Gear and had their aunties uncle tell them something that they are keen to share with you.

I'll also just admit that I don't want a copy of anything, if I wanted a Cobra (not my style and if I had to have an AC with American Iron it would be a 428) I'd have to have a real 1960's AC or nothing and certainly not any sort of chestwigged replica and if I wanted a Klon I'd buy one because I fundamentally feel that if you want something you buy it from the inventor or the originating brand be it a Hermes handbag or a Klon (and I'd happily crush every kit car in existence both on taste grounds and secondly to spare Lady Shadowplay the diddies that come up to her genuine Porsche 356 and tell her what's wrong with it based on their Auntie Betty's beetle based copy.).

Sometimes I can get the original thing I want, sometimes it's out of reach but I'm also good at doing without and don't have any sense of entitelment to Champagne on a lemonade budget.

Oh and just personally I'd not give Mr JHS fresh air in a dark corner, he's right at the very bottom of the darkest hole where getting any of my money is concerned.

D
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Klone, please!

Post by Jaguar018 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:21 am

Gestalt = Mojo right?

Another subjective thing is my approach to pedal clone builders; I 'subjectively' think that JHS guy is a turd and he has some highly questionable political views that have popped up before.

The endless threads about Klon pedals, the Bill Finnegan price-gauging conspiracies, and the lectures on how he should run a business have put me on his side. I want to support him and buy the pedals he makes. The Klon Centaur and the Klon KTR are nice pedals.

I do have some other cloned pedals, so I have no high horse to ride on-- lookin' all tall and stuff. Nope. Not me.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Klone, please!

Post by øøøøøøø » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:15 am

kgbAttack wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:25 am
For those who owned/played it: what is it that makes the Centaur so special that most clones can't achieve?
Honestly? Probably nothing meaningfully "better." But certainly "different."

I like the Centaur very much. I'm so accustomed to it that it's become pretty important to me to have one around. The copy pedals I've tried haven't given me "that thing" that I'm accustomed to from the Centaur. I couldn't possibly articulate the difference with words.

But it's not anything I'd claim to be a universal "magical property" or anything. It's just a thing I'm used to, and like.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Klone, please!

Post by mackerelmint » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:32 pm

As long as nobody is claiming to be able to hear differences in battery brands.
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Klone, please!

Post by Maggieo » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:24 pm

mackerelmint wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:32 pm
As long as nobody is claiming to be able to hear differences in battery brands.
OMG!! :D :D :D :D :D

That reminded me of a thread on an audiophile board where guys were arguing over what type of Generator Dyno made for the best fidelity! If you lived in a town where the local utility used the "wrong" type of generator coils, the electricity in your town made it impossible to have a "truly high-fidelity experience!"

IIRC, one guy claimed that if it wasn't electricity from Hydro Quebec, generated using Westinghouse equipment, you may as well just have AM radio. :fp:
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Klone, please!

Post by Bert Camenbert » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:49 pm

Back to the subject: I use both a KTR and an Arc Effects Klone. I like the Arc Effects Klone more, it doesn't have that silly text and it's white. To my ears at least, they both sound identical, except that the Arcs effects has a dip switch in it that, when in the on position, makes it sound fuller. And it was cheaper too! :whistle:

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Klone, please!

Post by mackerelmint » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:21 pm

Maggieo wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:24 pm
mackerelmint wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:32 pm
As long as nobody is claiming to be able to hear differences in battery brands.
OMG!! :D :D :D :D :D

That reminded me of a thread on an audiophile board where guys were arguing over what type of Generator Dyno made for the best fidelity! If you lived in a town where the local utility used the "wrong" type of generator coils, the electricity in your town made it impossible to have a "truly high-fidelity experience!"

IIRC, one guy claimed that if it wasn't electricity from Hydro Quebec, generated using Westinghouse equipment, you may as well just have AM radio. :fp:
Sounds like Gearslutz. Man, what a terrible place to get information. :fp:
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Klone, please!

Post by popvulture » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:32 pm

I agree with the vast majority of what's been said on here, and I'm also happy to hear that people aren't falling for JHS Josh's crap, whether in terms of pedal making ethics, politics, or otherwise. That guy sucks.

The Klon is a fantastic sounding overdrive, and I honestly do believe that my original one does sound better than the klones I've played. BUT, the biggest thing that's been said here that I want to double down on is the idea of I guess confirmation bias or more simply, "ooh, famous thing." It likely does sound great because it's a well thought-out and produced thing, but it really gets a bonus because you expect it to sound good based on its reputation.

To take it out of Klon-specific context but keep it in pedal-land, I have a pretty unobtanium pedal that I bought from Main Drag Music back in the day when I lived in Brooklyn. It's a Schumann Lion, made by the sort of legendarily mad-scientist-ish John Schumann, whose probably most notable invention is the now ludicrously expensive PLL.

So the Lion's basically just an overdrive pedal with an absurdly loud clean boost, and there's a fancier version called the Lion X that adds some cool filtering to the path. I bought it back then because I thought it sounded pretty great, but ultimately I didn't end up using it a ton... it lived on the board for a minute, didn't do it for me for whatever reason, then went in a box. Years later, these pedals are rare as all hell and I could probably easily sell it for $800 or more to the right buyer. And wouldn't you know... the last time I plugged it in after thinking about all that scarcity and hype, it sounded a lot better! Magic.

Take away all of the mythology it's just an overdrive pedal. Is it good? Yes. Great? Maybe. Are there others that are as good or better? Absolutely. The Klon's the same.

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