HELP: Shin-Ei Mute Box (E-17) doesn't "quack"

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Pacafeliz
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HELP: Shin-Ei Mute Box (E-17) doesn't "quack"

Post by Pacafeliz » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:38 am

well today is a fantastic day.
the other day i FINALLY bought a can of DeoxIT and this stuff is AMAZING!!! i disassembled pretty much all of my pedals with some sorta issue and they all were fixed with this stuff; cracking pots on most of them, revived my old Pearl AD-08 (no not the old old one from the other thread...) and the Coron Space Machine (which had been dead for like 15 years!!!, etc.

so i went over to this cool old box i've had stashed away for years. it's a clone of a MuTron III i think. i have the version without the on/off switch.

now it sounds and it, like the mr. multi, sounds like a wah in "cocked" position, but it doesn't "quack", no matter how i set the controls.
BUT when i switch the contols from one position to the other, there is a sudden quack! so it must be something really small, right?

weird is, it does not have any trim pot??

Image
i think this is the version with the on/off switch?

Image
this one is mine

Image
...and the back/front

help? ideas?

thanks, as always! :-*

Pat. ;D
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

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oid
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Re: HELP: Shin-Ei Mute Box (E-17) doesn't "quack"

Post by oid » Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:06 pm

Pacafeliz wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:38 am
now it sounds and it, like the mr. multi, sounds like a wah in "cocked" position, but it doesn't "quack", no matter how i set the controls.
BUT when i switch the contols from one position to the other, there is a sudden quack! so it must be something really small, right?
If I understand you correctly and the pedal was full working before the deoxit treatment? If so you should have a simple fix.

You may have just washed some filth into just the right spot in a pot or switch to render it non functional, give it another shot of deoxit and see what happens.

And/or you may have separated a solder joint on one of the knobs or switches, easy to do on these sorts of controls with no strain relief and less than perfect solder work, try reflowing the joints on the pots/switches. Solder joints should be smooth and shiny. You can try wiggling each control while audio plays through it, if any crackle, kill the sound or cause it to start working again you have found the bad solder.

Or the deoxit may have just been the last hurrah for one of the controls, likely a pot. This sometimes happens, a pot that sort of works and sounds dirty but it turns out that the dirt was structural and washing it away with the deoxit was its end, would have happened soon anyways.
Pacafeliz wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:38 am
weird is, it does not have any trim pot??
Nothing weird about that, no laws saying you need them. They generally are used to make sure each unit out the door sounds identical, compensates for variations in other parts within the circuit, they were not always so concerned about such things and realized that abit of variation between units is not a big deal in the end. They did not realize how anal guitarist can be.
Logic gates based on billiard-ball computer designs have also been made to operate using live soldier crabs of the species Mictyris guinotae in place of the billiard balls.

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Re: HELP: Shin-Ei Mute Box (E-17) doesn't "quack"

Post by Pacafeliz » Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:10 am

Hello thanks again!

No it didn't work properly before, either. I only eliminated the noise of when moving the controls.

So you suppose there must be a broken connection or so? :(
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

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Re: HELP: Shin-Ei Mute Box (E-17) doesn't "quack"

Post by Pacafeliz » Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:12 am

Btw is its normal that the volume know affects the sound (overall volume) even when the pedal is off?!
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

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Re: HELP: Shin-Ei Mute Box (E-17) doesn't "quack"

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:04 am

Pacafeliz wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:12 am
Btw is its normal that the volume know affects the sound (overall volume) even when the pedal is off?!
That's definitely not right. Sounds like something might have shorted to something else. In your pictures, the black plastic closed jack looks a little cocked. That's not touching the board itself is it?
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http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

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Re: HELP: Shin-Ei Mute Box (E-17) doesn't "quack"

Post by Pacafeliz » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:44 am

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:04 am
Pacafeliz wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:12 am
Btw is its normal that the volume know affects the sound (overall volume) even when the pedal is off?!
That's definitely not right. Sounds like something might have shorted to something else. In your pictures, the black plastic closed jack looks a little cocked. That's not touching the board itself is it?
Will check / take it apart again... thnx!
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

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Re: HELP: Shin-Ei Mute Box (E-17) doesn't "quack"

Post by MechaBulletBill » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:50 am

Are those old polarised caps? JEN crybabys from the 70s often need the 4.7uF electrolytic changing out to get a proper wah sweep. Thus ends my knowledge on such things!!!

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Re: HELP: Shin-Ei Mute Box (E-17) doesn't "quack"

Post by oid » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:16 pm

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:04 am
That's definitely not right. Sounds like something might have shorted to something else. In your pictures, the black plastic closed jack looks a little cocked. That's not touching the board itself is it?
In this case it is perfectly normal. You need to remember back in the old days the engineers were making this stuff up as they went along, there were very few if any standards yet and so we had many different bypass schemes. This sort just bypasses the effect, not the preamp so the volume control works regardless of the state of the bypass. The logic being that the effect should not have a change in volume between on and off but should have a volume control, so design the pedal for unity gain and make the volume global. Personally I generally prefer this sort, but it has largely been abandoned and it would be hard to get guitarists to accept a pedal that is not 'true bypass.' This sort of bypass is often used in studio gear where they largely do not care how the effect is bypassed, just that it is transparent when bypassed.
MechaBulletBill wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:50 am
Are those old polarised caps? JEN crybabys from the 70s often need the 4.7uF electrolytic changing out to get a proper wah sweep. Thus ends my knowledge on such things!!!
There is one polarized cap that could cause this problem in the pedal if it failed to short, and it just happens to also be 4.7uF, but it is not a component shared between a manual wah and an auto wah in this case. You closed you eyes and threw a dart, you may not have hit the bulls eye but you may have won the game, need to see how things play out!.
Pacafeliz wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:10 am
No it didn't work properly before, either. I only eliminated the noise of when moving the controls.

So you suppose there must be a broken connection or so? :(
Ok, there are a few possibly culprits, MechaBulletBill's capacitor, the LED/LDR, one of the switches, or a bad solder, possibly one or two other things but the schematic has some errors and assumptions that I need to sort as well as being for a different version of the pedal. What are the functions of your switches? The schematic has one more switch than you seem to have, besides the power switch and is less than clear.
Logic gates based on billiard-ball computer designs have also been made to operate using live soldier crabs of the species Mictyris guinotae in place of the billiard balls.

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Re: HELP: Shin-Ei Mute Box (E-17) doesn't "quack"

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:01 pm

oid wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:16 pm
Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:04 am
That's definitely not right. Sounds like something might have shorted to something else. In your pictures, the black plastic closed jack looks a little cocked. That's not touching the board itself is it?
In this case it is perfectly normal. You need to remember back in the old days the engineers were making this stuff up as they went along, there were very few if any standards yet and so we had many different bypass schemes. This sort just bypasses the effect, not the preamp so the volume control works regardless of the state of the bypass. The logic being that the effect should not have a change in volume between on and off but should have a volume control, so design the pedal for unity gain and make the volume global. Personally I generally prefer this sort, but it has largely been abandoned and it would be hard to get guitarists to accept a pedal that is not 'true bypass.' This sort of bypass is often used in studio gear where they largely do not care how the effect is bypassed, just that it is transparent when bypassed.
That's crazy. Kinda neat actually. I'm with you, I'd probably dig a global volume regardless of effect being engaged or not. Though, that's why I use a volume pedal too...
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http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

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Re: HELP: Shin-Ei Mute Box (E-17) doesn't "quack"

Post by MechaBulletBill » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:24 am

oid wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:16 pm
MechaBulletBill wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:50 am
Are those old polarised caps? JEN crybabys from the 70s often need the 4.7uF electrolytic changing out to get a proper wah sweep. Thus ends my knowledge on such things!!!
There is one polarized cap that could cause this problem in the pedal if it failed to short, and it just happens to also be 4.7uF, but it is not a component shared between a manual wah and an auto wah in this case. You closed you eyes and threw a dart, you may not have hit the bulls eye but you may have won the game, need to see how things play out!.
;D ;D ;D

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