OD to shape Big Muff Suggestions (BYOC Project Ideas)

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OD to shape Big Muff Suggestions (BYOC Project Ideas)

Post by stevejamsecono » Wed May 02, 2018 3:13 pm

Hey Friends,

So I've been meaning for ages (like most of us) to pick up one of those starter kits from BYOC and try making my own pedal. The only thing that's really stopped me is that I don't really use a lot of pedals so the idea of having more didn't seem to make sense.

Anyway, I've got a friend who plays in this band, https://theroyalthey.bandcamp.com/, who has been having some pedalboard woes and I'd like to try to help him out. His current OD/Fuzz combination is a Little Big Muff w/Tone Whicker into a Boss SD-1. His SD-1 is always on and he mostly uses it on low gain/high volume settings to give his Muff some midrange punch when he turns it on. Problem is he's kind of clumsy so he keeps turning the SD-1 on and off. My plan is to build one of the OD pedal kits from BYOC and put it in a micro enclosure with no switch so that it's just always on and frees up some pedalboard real estate for him. I think he'd really appreciate it.

So my question is for the Muff stacking crowd, I was thinking of doing the Li'l Modified OD which seems to be a Tubescreamer thing and I know the SD-1 shares some DNA with that. Do we think this would be a good go, and if not, is there something similar I should use? I notice that the Li'l Breaker based on the Marshall Bluesbreaker is an option too and that could be cool. I could also see a Klon-ish thing working here as well.

Thoughts? Experiences?
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Re: OD to shape Big Muff Suggestions (BYOC Project Ideas)

Post by stevejamsecono » Wed May 02, 2018 4:02 pm

Additionally, anyone ever built a pedal that didn't have an on/off switch? Is there any danger in doing this?
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Re: OD to shape Big Muff Suggestions (BYOC Project Ideas)

Post by mackerelmint » Wed May 02, 2018 4:02 pm

Yeah, the screamer is probably the way to go. Honestly, the boss OD is really a TS at heart with different clipping and a couple other small differences. Seems like a case of going with what you know works probably being the best course of action.
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Re: OD to shape Big Muff Suggestions (BYOC Project Ideas)

Post by oid » Thu May 03, 2018 12:52 am

The TS9 and SD1 are more or less the same circuit with a few differences. The TS9 cuts some lows and has symmetrical clipping, the SD1 keeps those lows and has asymmetrical clipping. There are some other slight tweaks in the frequency response, and I think the SD1 has more gain as well but memory is failing me at the moment. The PCB for one can be used for the other without much work, mostly need to squeeze two diodes into the space of one and change a few values.

If your friend likes to do the bassy muffled big muff sound and keeps its tone know low, the TS9 stock may not work for him, but he may also like it better, kind of a toss up.

No problems skipping the foot switch, won't hurt a thing, might be worth while to replace it with a slide switch so the option to bypass is there without the worry of big feet/tiny pedals incidents.

I have been rolling these two designs over in my head off and on for the past few months, they are both pedals I have fond memories of and have been contemplating how to get the sounds I liked from each from one pedal without the addition of more controls. I think I am going to put in some work on that and give the two designs a good work over, I will post a more in depth comparison of them in the effects section this weekend.
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Re: OD to shape Big Muff Suggestions (BYOC Project Ideas)

Post by RuffiansFC » Thu May 10, 2018 5:50 am

there is a mid cut in the SD1, which is why the OD by itself may be more pleasing to some than the screamer. with a big muff, an OD with a mid cut may exacerbate the issue. Try the screamer and give a dod 250 a shot. I've had luck with both. A decent triangle muff clone would be something worth looking into, as well.

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Re: OD to shape Big Muff Suggestions (BYOC Project Ideas)

Post by apreswho » Sat May 12, 2018 5:42 am

MIght be a weird suggestion, but if his issues aren’t with his TONE but rather with the positioning of the pedals, he could maybe just move the SD1, so he never steps on it? Far corner of the pedal board? Maybe even he can set it on top of his amp or something?

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Re: OD to shape Big Muff Suggestions (BYOC Project Ideas)

Post by stevejamsecono » Sat May 12, 2018 8:04 am

Problem is he has a Nano + and it's already packed, so there's really no place for it to go. He could just put it up on his amp I guess, but this solution seems more fun :)
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Re: OD to shape Big Muff Suggestions (BYOC Project Ideas)

Post by mackerelmint » Sat May 12, 2018 3:07 pm

RuffiansFC wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 5:50 am
there is a mid cut in the SD1
Uhhh... I think you mean a boost, like the tube screamer, which is why it stacks well with the muff. There's a low end cut, though, which can also work well stacking with a muff to keep it from getting too woofy on the low end.
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Re: OD to shape Big Muff Suggestions (BYOC Project Ideas)

Post by oid » Sun May 13, 2018 12:51 am

Detailed analysis of these two circuits has proven to be quite involved, and my time limited this past week. The frequency response of such a circuit is a fairly difficult thing to simplify but a couple plots from the simulator show what is needed from the users perspective.

First the response of the tone controls.
Image
The SD1 has considerably more range in its tone control and in the full treble position it has a fair amount of low mid to high boost where the TS9 is mid to high. They will both have a mid boost sound, but the SD1 will be darker and be able to muddy things up when wanted.

And the response of the circuits in their entirety.
Image
This sort of plot does not tell us a great deal about the sound of something like a distortion pedal and can be downright misleading in some cases, it does do a good job of comparing the two designs. The low and mid frequency response of the two is almost identical but the TS9 shifts its high frequency peak forward as we turn up the tone control ending up about an octave about the SD1's.

My ultimate conclusion regarding the differences between the two pedals is that the SD1 is an OD/distortion trying to please as many people as possible, the TS9 is a clean to dirty OD trying to do one thing and do it well. More to come as time permits.
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Re: OD to shape Big Muff Suggestions (BYOC Project Ideas)

Post by Mike S » Sun May 13, 2018 8:48 am

I like the EHX Soul Food which is based on the Klon as well as the Distortion+ for beefing up a Big Muff. I also like shaping or cleaning up the clarity of fuzzes with scooped mids like Big Muffs by playing out of phase when I need to. I'm not sure if anyone else does that.

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Re: OD to shape Big Muff Suggestions (BYOC Project Ideas)

Post by stevejamsecono » Sun May 13, 2018 5:48 pm

oid wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 12:51 am
Detailed analysis of these two circuits has proven to be quite involved, and my time limited this past week. The frequency response of such a circuit is a fairly difficult thing to simplify but a couple plots from the simulator show what is needed from the users perspective.

First the response of the tone controls.
Image
The SD1 has considerably more range in its tone control and in the full treble position it has a fair amount of low mid to high boost where the TS9 is mid to high. They will both have a mid boost sound, but the SD1 will be darker and be able to muddy things up when wanted.

And the response of the circuits in their entirety.
Image
This sort of plot does not tell us a great deal about the sound of something like a distortion pedal and can be downright misleading in some cases, it does do a good job of comparing the two designs. The low and mid frequency response of the two is almost identical but the TS9 shifts its high frequency peak forward as we turn up the tone control ending up about an octave about the SD1's.

My ultimate conclusion regarding the differences between the two pedals is that the SD1 is an OD/distortion trying to please as many people as possible, the TS9 is a clean to dirty OD trying to do one thing and do it well. More to come as time permits.
Holy shit, that is some thorough detective-work. Thank you for putting so much time and thought into that!
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Re: OD to shape Big Muff Suggestions (BYOC Project Ideas)

Post by shoule79 » Fri May 18, 2018 4:41 pm

Mike S wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 8:48 am
I like the EHX Soul Food which is based on the Klon as well as the Distortion+ for beefing up a Big Muff. I also like shaping or cleaning up the clarity of fuzzes with scooped mids like Big Muffs by playing out of phase when I need to. I'm not sure if anyone else does that.
These are my two favorite drives to help a muff stand out a little better.

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Re: OD to shape Big Muff Suggestions (BYOC Project Ideas)

Post by Plumerai » Wed May 23, 2018 12:37 pm

Is it possible to rehouse the SD in a smaller box? Of if cheap/lazy: remove the top part you step on along with the knobs (make sure the knobs are at the wanted settings & the pedal is in the on position) then wrap it in tape, and mount it under the pedalboard.

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Re: OD to shape Big Muff Suggestions (BYOC Project Ideas)

Post by stevejamsecono » Thu May 24, 2018 6:08 pm

Plumerai wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 12:37 pm
Is it possible to rehouse the SD in a smaller box? Of if cheap/lazy: remove the top part you step on along with the knobs (make sure the knobs are at the wanted settings & the pedal is in the on position) then wrap it in tape, and mount it under the pedalboard.
So unfortunately the circuit board in the SD-1 is fitted to the box it comes in, so nothing smaller will really do. We actually came up with a way simpler solution similar to what you're saying though, and he ripped off the switch. The little button is still there to turn it on and off, but now it's way harder to accidentally hit. Problem.. solved?
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