Pre-Amp & Cab Simulators: Where to start?

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thisisnickpaige
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Pre-Amp & Cab Simulators: Where to start?

Post by thisisnickpaige » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:06 pm

Thinking about how an amp works (please correct me if i'm wrong): Preamp is sort of EQ, then Power Amp lifts volume, then the speaker (plus tubes through out) sort of colour and compress. I set my amps clean, and use pedals as dirt: my favourite amp sound is a SF Twin Reverb, for a point of reference.

I have a Sansamp, but the speaker simulator is not my favourite. So i was thinking of getting a new preamp, and a cab simulator. However, then i thought that maybe a preamp, and a compressor might do a better job, as really i would only want a 2x12 set up, so a cab simulator may be overkill.

How do i build an amp, in pedal form? What do you guys think? Suggestions are very welcome.

Ideas for Preamp: Tech21 Blonde, Ethos Clean II (which actually has a cab sim), Torpedo Le Clean, and the Effectrode Blackbird.
Ideas for Cabinet Simulator: Torpedo C.A.B, Bluguitar Blubox and thats about it as i haven't researched these as much.
Ideas for Compressor: No clue, really. Cali76?
Last edited by thisisnickpaige on Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: How do i build an amp in pedal form?

Post by FightingPlankton » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:22 pm

you're in luck, just about every major manufacturer is doing "amp in a pedal" these days.
I'd personally probably go bax bangeetar(talk to hnb about these)>digitech cabdryVR if I was going to go this route.
that being said... do you know about these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-hriZEkXlk
What is acoustic? Oh, you means a grandpa's guitars? A grandpa's guitars? That's for pussies and grandpas. I think you know it.

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Re: How do i build an amp in pedal form?

Post by thisisnickpaige » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:42 am

Well an, " amp in a box " is a lot different than a proper pre-amp style pedal. AIB pedals are more EQ/tone pedals than pre-amp from what I've found online. I had never heard of it, but that Shiftline sounds nice. Thanks for that.

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Re: How do i make an amp in pedal form? (Not Amp In Box)

Post by MechaBulletBill » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:08 am

You mean like the Micro block?

They were listed at £145 before they were released! Dammit brexit! :-/

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Re: How do i make an amp in pedal form? (Not Amp In Box)

Post by thisisnickpaige » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:25 am

haha Darn brexit, and their £14 price hikes!

Yeah, that pedal sounded nice too. But what i guess i'm really looking for is a pre-amp pedal, and a cabinet simulator. So maybe i should make a new thread and scratch this one (EDIT: edited the title). That shiftline seems like a great choice but it runs on 12v, and needs 1000ma which seems to me like i'd then need to use it's supplied wall wart and not my pedal power supply.

Currently leaning towards keeping the Sansamp for now and getting a Bluguitar Blubox as a cab simulator, and just turning the simulator down on my Sansamp.

I will eventually upgrade the Sansamp for some tube pre-amp, but for now it will be fine, until i'm gigging much more.

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Re: Pre-Amp & Cab Simulators: Where to start?

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:47 am

Sounds to me like you'd be looking into something by Kingsley...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9j2TVBlMNI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGmfigyLhuQ
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Re: Pre-Amp & Cab Simulators: Where to start?

Post by thisisnickpaige » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:36 am

Oh my golly goodness, those Kingsley pedals sound killer; the look is simple, and kinda neo-retro. And, the power required is quite lower than all the other options. I guess the question is Squire BF or the Maiden BF? Thanks for the heads up!

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Re: Pre-Amp & Cab Simulators: Where to start?

Post by fuzzjunkie » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:43 am

The Ethos seems to get the most love for this application. Palmer makes high end solutions for this and has for a while now. The first I heard was Andy Summers and Mike Hedges using them years ago.

A/DA is making things again and have an amp cab simulator.

My only experience with them is through Line 6 and the old Roland/Boss COSM systems. Line 6 was going for the sound of a cab miked in a room and didn't give you control over altering that. COSM was a bit more raw sounding; but if you spent hours tweaking it you could get something more natural sounding, or at least more than a Pod could. Most of the old GT boxes have it and while my old Roland GP-16 isn't COSM based it is set up the same way. The cab sims on it could be tweaked to make something respectable sounding if you had the preamp, compression and EQ tuned properly.

I've read that the Ethos sounds better if you put time based effects after it rather than before.

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Re: Pre-Amp & Cab Simulators: Where to start?

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:41 pm

thisisnickpaige wrote:Oh my golly goodness, those Kingsley pedals sound killer; the look is simple, and kinda neo-retro. And, the power required is quite lower than all the other options. I guess the question is Squire BF or the Maiden BF? Thanks for the heads up!
I think it'd be cool to do a small gigging board with one of those and a power amp (possibly mounted underneath a 3 or 4 pedal board). I love both of my amps, but those things DO sound killer. It doesn't help that Dan and Mick both have SUCH good tone and can make anything sound good. I'd love to have a beer with those guys 8)
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Re: Pre-Amp & Cab Simulators: Where to start?

Post by mackerelmint » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:19 am

I assume this is for recording?

If so, you can just use a convolution reverb and load up a sample of a cab. You can find them for free, and there are some "commercial" ones that are only a couple bucks each. If you're looking for some particular amp's sound, an "amp in a pedal" and a corresponding cab sample would do well. It wouldn't be as interactive, obviously, but I'm not sure if there are any hardware cab sims that do a convincing job, either. I used to have an A/DA MP-2 with their cab simulation, and I never found it to be worth bothering with, for whatever that's worth to you. The rest of the preamp was pretty great, though.
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Re: Pre-Amp & Cab Simulators: Where to start?

Post by thisisnickpaige » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:18 am

mackerelmint wrote:I assume this is for recording?

If so, you can just use a convolution reverb and load up a sample of a cab. You can find them for free, and there are some "commercial" ones that are only a couple bucks each.
Cool, do you have any names or suggestions? Hey, aren't you also a Tech21 blonde user? Do you use that like an amp or more like a stompbox?

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Re: Pre-Amp & Cab Simulators: Where to start?

Post by thisisnickpaige » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:23 am

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
I think it'd be cool to do a small gigging board with one of those and a power amp (possibly mounted underneath a 3 or 4 pedal board). I love both of my amps, but those things DO sound killer. It doesn't help that Dan and Mick both have SUCH good tone and can make anything sound good. I'd love to have a beer with those guys
Yeah, they usually make it quite tempting, but I didn't like their demo in this case. In the sense that they seemed to always use overdrive, and they ran through an amp.

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Re: Pre-Amp & Cab Simulators: Where to start?

Post by mackerelmint » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:26 pm

thisisnickpaige wrote:
mackerelmint wrote:I assume this is for recording?

If so, you can just use a convolution reverb and load up a sample of a cab. You can find them for free, and there are some "commercial" ones that are only a couple bucks each.
Cool, do you have any names or suggestions? Hey, aren't you also a Tech21 blonde user? Do you use that like an amp or more like a stompbox?
I'm a tech21 Leeds user. I was researching this to find samples of Fane-loaded Hiwatt cabs a while back and came across this place since they have an impulse response of a Hiwatt cabinet for just a few bucks. There's quite a list, I'm sure you can find a few you'd be interested in and just pay a la carte instead of buying their big bundle.

So the way I use my Leeds pedal is as a preamp to do all my tone shaping. I just run it after my dirt and before my modulations and verbs, with the built in "cab sim" button turned off. It just stays on and I use my other boxes to drive it as needed. All that just runs into a power amp and then my 112 cab. I like it.

edit: forgot the link!! :whistle:
Last edited by mackerelmint on Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pre-Amp & Cab Simulators: Where to start?

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:58 pm

mackerelmint wrote:So the way I use my Leeds pedal is as a preamp to do all my tone shaping. I just run it after my dirt and before my modulations and verbs, with the built in "cab sim" button turned off. It just stays on and I use my other boxes to drive it as needed. All that just runs into a power amp and then my 112 cab. I like it.
That sounds awesome. I wonder how it would sound if you put the preamp after all the effects (like running all your effects into the front of an amp). I wonder if things would respond in a similar fashion...
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Re: Pre-Amp & Cab Simulators: Where to start?

Post by mackerelmint » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:46 pm

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
mackerelmint wrote:So the way I use my Leeds pedal is as a preamp to do all my tone shaping. I just run it after my dirt and before my modulations and verbs, with the built in "cab sim" button turned off. It just stays on and I use my other boxes to drive it as needed. All that just runs into a power amp and then my 112 cab. I like it.
That sounds awesome. I wonder how it would sound if you put the preamp after all the effects (like running all your effects into the front of an amp). I wonder if things would respond in a similar fashion...
I think it sounds kinda shitty, tbh. The verb into dirt trick can be good, but EVERYTHING overdriving the Leeds doesn't do it for me. It sounds fine with the leeds clean, though. I just like to set things so that it's close to breakup and then I get that extra bit of flavor when I add dirt.
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