jhs vcr

[FightingPlankton]

^Don't forget affiliation to a 'kill the gays' church, tho

Was honestly unaware of the anti-gay affiliation... Although I most certainly do NOT share his views I am a firm believer of his 1st amendment right to free speech and his ability to run a private business in any manner that adheres to the laws pertaining to such businesses.
Example: if I wanted to run a business and had the right to refuse service to anyone... I wouldn't necessarily want tweekers coming in, trying to steal things. So I would use my right as a business owner to keep them out.
Now if JHS CHOOSES to be a bigot and only cater to his worship players... That's his choice as a business owner.
Its not like he's selling blood diamonds or elephant ivory.

But seriously, knowing his position on homosexuality does make me question HIM as a person, but wouldn't affect my opinion on whether or not one of his pedals sounded good.

[O Drones]

Fuck JHS forever tbh

Idk if your jhs hate is based off the Devi situation, the high price, or the runoffgroove clone... But honestly,
This is clearly an original circuit and the past is the past. Let us not forget companies such as Ibanez started their business making strat and LP clones. And Devi herself bases many of her circuits on other pedals (IC muff, tonebender, etc).
If you don't want to support a company that's trying to grow and move forward... That's on you.
Personally I feel like JHS became the whipping boy for doing the same practices as SOOO many other companies.
Ive personally talked to reps from big brand pedal companies that have spoken disparagingly about their competitors to try to get me to buy their product instead...so you can't say JHS is the only one doing it and hold them to a higher standard than others.
As for high price... Look at other boutiques. Copper sound pedals is asking $250 for an 8 component boost pedal... So again, JHS isn't doing anything unheard of.

Yeah, it's 100% to do with his connections and previous financial contributions towards an organisation that's been complicit in encouraging extreme hatred of human beings based on their sexuality. Particularly in Africa. But also, 99.9% of his pedals look like shite and the cloning and subsequent denial of cloning doesn't help to discourage my belief him and his company are a massive pile of elephant vomit.

[Groovy Tunes]

elephant vomit.

more like vomit from an absurdly obese pig

[Supreme Pancake]

^Don't forget affiliation to a 'kill the gays' church, tho

Was honestly unaware of the anti-gay affiliation... Although I most certainly do NOT share his views I am a firm believer of his 1st amendment right to free speech and his ability to run a private business in any manner that adheres to the laws pertaining to such businesses.
Example: if I wanted to run a business and had the right to refuse service to anyone... I wouldn't necessarily want tweekers coming in, trying to steal things. So I would use my right as a business owner to keep them out.

Is this really the best example we have? Tweekers?
If a private business owner doesn't want to sell their goods to a certain group that's fine. But at least do us all a favor and put a sign at the front saying you will not sell to gays, women, or whomever.
Of course these moral cowards wouldn't do that because they don't want the general public offended.

[mackerelmint]

I've never had much of an opinion one way or another on JHS pedals themselves. More pedals based on the same handful of circuits. But his conduct really sets him apart as one of the foremost assholes of the industry.

[Grey]

Was honestly unaware of the anti-gay affiliation... Although I most certainly do NOT share his views I am a firm believer of his 1st amendment right to free speech and his ability to run a private business in any manner that adheres to the laws pertaining to such businesses.

That cuts both ways, 'O Drones' has the right to say "fuck JHS forever" just as JHS has the right to hate gays and turn away customers. No, it doesn't change how the pedal sounds, and if we were all objective emotionless robots then the person behind the name might not matter, but we arn't and it does.

Now if it was me and I wanted it bad enough i'd probably still get it, my moral outrage ends at the point where it starts inconveniencing me.

[marqueemoon]

I prefer to buy gear from godless dirtbags like myself whenever possible.

[Groovy Tunes]

I prefer to buy gear from godless dirtbags like myself whenever possible.

I wish I could hit a like button for this post

[FightingPlankton]

I regret starting this thread. I think I'm going to take a break from the forums. I think it's interesting how y'all are against this guy for hating a group of people but y'all can go right on hating him for reasons you personally disagree with.... The hypocracy is overwhelming.


Good bye OSG.

[mackerelmint]

I regret starting this thread. I think I'm going to take a break from the forums. I think it's interesting how y'all are against this guy for hating a group of people but y'all can go right on hating him for reasons you personally disagree with.... The hypocracy is overwhelming.


Good bye OSG.

Seriously? Look, he can think and do whatever he wants, and we're free to disagree with him and vote with our wallets. That's just the market at work.

Consider Devi Ever, whose work he cloned. That's the way of things, but then he went above and beyond and tried to smear her reputation. She's a transwoman. In light of his contributions to organizations that actively try to make it even more dangerous than it already is to be that, is it really hypocritical of us to hold that against him? Would it really be hypocritical even if he hadn't, to dislike someone and not want to support their business even if that weren't part of the overall context? It's not "I don't like bananas and you do so I'm going to join an anti-banana crusade and show YOU". You're another MoT, aren't you? Since when do we equate objecting to someone's bigotry with bigotry itself? That dog don't hunt, friend.

My money in his pocket is a bit of my money in the pocket of someone who wants to make it illegal for me to be me. Is it wrong for me not to want people's money to go there? To try to make sure people have that information when they make their choices? Are they wrong for considering that information when making that choice? Philosophically, I think most people would say no. It's also part of "complete market information" which in economics is considered a part of a better market. There's just no part of it that fails any kind of sniff test.

[FightingPlankton]

This thread was started in the "effects" category... And it quickly turned in to an ethics debate. If you want to rant and rave about that, post in the "miscellaneous " subforum.
I don't hate anyone. I disagree with many people a views, but I don't HATE them because of them. If you all want to waste energy arguing about ethics instead of gear... I don't want to be associated with OSG.
I joined OSG to learn and discuss guitar gear... Not business etiquette or debate moral beliefs. I do not condone the beliefs of JHS, in fact I condemn them... But I'm not going to waste any of my time or energy hating someone because they have different beliefs than me.

Mods, please move this thread to the miscellaneous discussion section where it clearly belongs. I'll leave y'all to finish up here.

[mackerelmint]

Man, what a bunch of deflection. OK.

[FightingPlankton]

Let me put this to you:

Volkswagen started out making cars for Hitler. As a Jewish American I clearly disagree with Hitlers beliefs... But do you think that should keep me from driving a VW?
Are you saying everyone that drives a VW hates Jewish people? Don't say "well Hitler doesn't own VW"... Because you're still supporting a company that got its start as a company funded by money from someone with terrible personal beliefs... So by supporting Volkswagen you're still supporting a company that was founded by hate.

[Grey]

Volkswagen started out making cars for Hitler. As a Jewish American I clearly disagree with Hitlers beliefs... But do you think that should keep me from driving a VW?
Are you saying everyone that drives a VW hates Jewish people? Don't say "well Hitler doesn't own VW"... Because you're still supporting a company that got its start as a company funded by money from someone with terrible personal beliefs... So by supporting Volkswagen you're still supporting a company that was founded by hate.

You're so far off base here. First of all, Volkswagen didn't "make cars for Hilter." Hitler commissioned Porsche to develop what was then called "The Peoples' Car" which is where the word Volkswagen comes from, but ultimately no more than a handful of prototypes were ever produced. Volkswagen didn't come into being until the post-war occupation of Germany when the Americans handed over control of the Volkswagen plant to the British who didn't begin large scale production of the car until the late 1940's, a year after Hitler was already dead. Even ignoring the historial inaccuracy, your sentiment here is so misguided.

[mackerelmint]

Let me put this to you:

Volkswagen started out making cars for Hitler. As a Jewish American I clearly disagree with Hitlers beliefs... But do you think that should keep me from driving a VW?
Are you saying everyone that drives a VW hates Jewish people? Don't say "well Hitler doesn't own VW"... Because you're still supporting a company that got its start as a company funded by money from someone with terrible personal beliefs... So by supporting Volkswagen you're still supporting a company that was founded by hate.

There's a huge difference in giving money to a company that presently passes some of that money on to horrible causes and giving money to a company started as a state industry by a terrible person who's been dead over 70 years. Apples and Oranges. You may recall me, some time ago, raking Russell Brand over the coals for taking Hugo Boss to task at their own company function for manufacturing the Wehrmacht's uniforms back then, defending it saying "It's very offensive to the Jewish people". Well, as one of those people, I take offense at him using the holocaust to satisfy his narcissism like that, not at Hugo Boss's current staff for their predecessors a lifetime ago taking a contract.

I dunno if you feel attacked by proxy just for having posted about the pedal or what. I mean, I think we all end up feeling that way at some point over one thing or another in our lives, but I hope you realize that nobody thinks of JHS guy's ethical infirmity as being a reflection on you somehow for simply having said "check out this pedal". And if someone does, they're a tool.

That said, if debates about the ethics of companies and figures in the industry that makes our equipment is really a deal-breaker for you, I have to wonder why you didn't announce your departure from OSG in dramatic fashion years ago, these debates being a regular event. And it never seems to be in the "miscellaneous" section, either, which nobody has complained about before to my knowledge, because it's always brought up in the context of whatever piece of gear/company/whatever the thread was about in the first place. Throwing a fit over that looks like a real deflection to me. And why are you still "wasting your energy" arguing about this like you said you don't do? Frankly, I don't think about JHS and his ethics much, but I don't consider it a waste of my time and/or energy to lay out the case for why it's OK not to give him business and to let others know and make the decisions they're comfortable with. And arguing or even suggesting that disliking, even hating someone for a thing they choose to do and refusing to give them business is somehow on a par with disliking or hating someone for what they are and taking an active part in their oppression... !שאַנד