1965 Ampeg Reverberocket II Speaker Suggestions?

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mekhem
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Re: 1965 Ampeg Reverberocket II

Post by mekhem » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:22 pm

my bloody television wrote:best of luck getting it back up and running like it should. I've got a '66 and love it to death. I bought mine dead mint and regrettably blew the original speaker. I bought an Eminence Cannabis Rex and it really works well with the amp (if you have any thoughts of upgrading the speaker).

You asked earlier about headroom. I don't have a guitar with full-on humbuckers at the moment but with my Jaguar I can get it up to about 2-3 o'clock before it gets hairy. Even dimed it's a pretty clean sound (think The Ventures live tone). With my Firebird it breaks up a little sooner but it's still pretty clean...just a bit more rock n roll when it's blasting.

One final word...I had mine glossed over by a tech a couple of years ago (replaced a couple caps plus some new tubes) and he told me these amps are a bitch to open up so that might add to the bench fee with your tech if it takes him a while just to get inside the amp.

I assume yours has 7591 output tubes? Mine came with the original Ampeg-branded tubes from 1966 and when I took it to my tech he said they were no good and needed to be replaced. He put some JJs in and they lasted all of 6 months (and didn't sound anywhere NEAR as good). I decided for shits and giggles to throw the old tubes back in and they still sounded great. I ended up buying an NOS set of eBay a little while later and they sound just as good as the originals. Basically, if you can swing it get some old glass for this amp...the new 7591s suck.
I have a 64 that i bought this fall.... I wasn't even looking but how can you not. The Tech that I took it to for a quick check up and to have the footswitch looked at. His comment was "Those octal tubes just never die..." They are Ampeg labeled but not sure if they are the originals.

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Re: 1965 Ampeg Reverberocket II

Post by Beau In Space » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:19 pm

my bloody television wrote:best of luck getting it back up and running like it should. I've got a '66 and love it to death. I bought mine dead mint and regrettably blew the original speaker. I bought an Eminence Cannabis Rex and it really works well with the amp (if you have any thoughts of upgrading the speaker).

You asked earlier about headroom. I don't have a guitar with full-on humbuckers at the moment but with my Jaguar I can get it up to about 2-3 o'clock before it gets hairy. Even dimed it's a pretty clean sound (think The Ventures live tone). With my Firebird it breaks up a little sooner but it's still pretty clean...just a bit more rock n roll when it's blasting.

One final word...I had mine glossed over by a tech a couple of years ago (replaced a couple caps plus some new tubes) and he told me these amps are a bitch to open up so that might add to the bench fee with your tech if it takes him a while just to get inside the amp.

I assume yours has 7591 output tubes? Mine came with the original Ampeg-branded tubes from 1966 and when I took it to my tech he said they were no good and needed to be replaced. He put some JJs in and they lasted all of 6 months (and didn't sound anywhere NEAR as good). I decided for shits and giggles to throw the old tubes back in and they still sounded great. I ended up buying an NOS set of eBay a little while later and they sound just as good as the originals. Basically, if you can swing it get some old glass for this amp...the new 7591s suck.
Oh dear. Hopefully it doesn't take too long for him to open it up. 5 hours of labor would cost me $300.00. That would cut into my Jaguar fund a little.
The power tubes are the original 7591s. I am praying they are okay.

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Re: 1965 Ampeg Reverberocket II

Post by 46346 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:08 pm

i restored one back in like 1999 and it has been my most-gigged amp ever since.

it doesn't take me much longer to open up then any other combo amp - it's just that the many screw heads are of a strange type - not phillips or flathead screws! i was able to find the right screwdriver at a RV shop of all places! also, a certain size square bit driver will fit without stripping.


BEING THAT i'm practically bed-ridden from dental surgery today,
heres' the long version of how it went down for me:

i found mine listed in the Recycler (legendary SoCal want-ads in print). i had wanted one for some time but they aren't easy to find in the west. they were quite popular in NY and NJ, and when i gigged there i got to borrow one and really fell for it.

when i went to check it out, i wasn't expecting much. the price was $250! i couldn't believe it when i saw it. it was beautiful - the tolex was in great shape, the chrome control panel gleamed like a mirror... the grille cloth did look old, but told you it was indeed a vintage amp. i was stoked. until we plugged in. the seller turned it up and played some kooky metal riffs, and it sounded like ass. much like you described - thin and weak, reverb sounded cheap and broke, there was all kinds of unpleasant distortion. i was kinda bummed, but i knew these could sound great. he took my offer of $200 (i felt bad for the guy, he had a family, it was not a great neighborhood etc. so i didn't want to low-ball him).

got it home, and hoped my guitar would sound better through it. not much... at all! i pressed on the speaker and found there was rub. my friend had a spare 12" so we swapped it, and big improvement. i took the original speaker to the reputable Orange County Speaker shop for a recone, $55. it was a CTS Alnico, dated 1966, i figured it was worth reconing.

i had not repaired a guitar amp on my own yet, but i had spent a couple of hours with my favorite tech as he worked on amps for me and my friend. he showed us how to drain the power caps for safe working, and a few diagnostic tricks. so i set out on my own on this one, successfully discharging the big filter caps (all in that aluminum can at the bottom of the chassis. then i could poke around somewhat freely.

the treble pot was real scratchy - in fact there was one position where the audio would drop radically. interestingly, it was where the treble tone was just sounding about right. it must have been sitting in that position for many years. i cleaned it and cranked it a lot... it started to clear up and a lot of fidelity came back to the amp. later on, after some use, it would still cut out in that position. so, i broke out my dinky soldering iron and replaced it with a similar range CTS pot.

i did some probing around the reverb - and inquiring on the vintage amps forum about my measurements. guys came back with some feedback and it seemed all my values were decent. so i went ahead and replaced the reverb tank. voila! beautiful reverb! especially so. i rarely set it past 10 o'clock.

tremolo: no action here... with more help from the forum guys i traced it to the optical 'bug' - that little black rectangle that has a light bulb and photo-sensor in it. found a replacement online. came together nicely. i even swapped out a cap or two for different values so i could get the trem to go nice and slow with a good strong wave. i was stoked! some opto-trem circuits are underwhelming (Fender)... but this one is nice and round.

i was puzzled about how to properly bias the 7591 power tubes. i had read about how doing that is quite important. i called my tech, cuz he had shown me the bias current supply on my other amp. when i emailed him the schematic, he noticed that the power tubes are 'cathode biased' and you don't have to tweak a bias supply, they are self-biasing. and that is one aspect of the design that makes these amps sound cool! there is a resistor and cap combo coming off the cathode, should you need to change them, but apparently, even modern tubes tend to sit well with the original spec. and like MBT mentioned earlier, i had gotten a pair of EHX russian "7591"s, but eventually returned to the original Ampeg power tubes cuz they sounded better. i put "7591"s in quotes, as it turns out those EHX/Sovtek tubes were actually a different tube type that were reconfigured at the pins to work in a 7591 socket. not bad, but not great.
since then i have trash-picked several original 7591's from rusted out stereos and such. they all still work well!

i got the CTS speaker back, and it sounded OK. i was a little underwhelmed. looking back - i didn't realized that recones often need to be broken in over many hours. i might go find that guy, hook him up and play a guitar loop through it overnight when leaving my studio. but i did find a second-hand Weber Alnico 12 with a British style cone - which seemed really interesting to me. it REALLY made the amp a special thing to me - it is very much a clean amp with a slight upper-mid grind when pushed - but this speaker takes it towards a Voxy soft treble grind as well, again - only when pushed. fantastic overtones will come at moderate volumes too.

the cabinet design is really something. way bigger than a 1x12 combo needs to be. but it has such a deep, natural bass as a result.

it took me about two weeks to do all that work in my spare time, and learning along the way. plus waiting for some parts.
i think an experienced tech could nail it in less than three hours bench time for sure. and i'm guessing yours will be easier than mine. some of the parts can take a while to receive - the tremolo opto-bug, and the reverb tank... most everything else should be close at hand.


what speaker does yours have?
Cat Museum, ACME, Malcolm Mooney, Dream Apes, The Cooling Time, Kind Hearts and Coronets, Quarks

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Re: 1965 Ampeg Reverberocket II

Post by Beau In Space » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:46 pm

It says Ampeg Custom Design..looks old. Any way to tell if it is the original?

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Re: 1965 Ampeg Reverberocket II

Post by 46346 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:59 pm

i think mine did too. a shiny label with blue print, i believe?

FOTOS!!! of EVERYTHING!!!
Cat Museum, ACME, Malcolm Mooney, Dream Apes, The Cooling Time, Kind Hearts and Coronets, Quarks

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Re: 1965 Ampeg Reverberocket II

Post by Beau In Space » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:48 pm

46346 wrote:i think mine did too. a shiny label with blue print, i believe?

FOTOS!!! of EVERYTHING!!!
I'll have some posted in an hour or two!

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Re: 1965 Ampeg Reverberocket II

Post by Beau In Space » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:30 pm

I took these rather quickly with a family member's phone. I can take more viewer-worthy pictures tomorrow with an adequate device. To see the full photo, right click over it and click View image.

What do you guys think about the chrome? Should I get some advice on how to scrub it up or leave it looking player grade?

I actually like the "worn" aspects.

Note: My niece, Noah, wanted to stand beside it to "show them how big it is". She is a short 4-year-old with the personality of an optimistic playwright. She is poking her belly out because although she is taller, she wanted to be "fatter" than it.

Image
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Re: 1965 Ampeg Reverberocket II *Pictures Added*

Post by noisepunk » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:54 pm

Music go round typically has a 30 day return policy (both times I've bought amps from them they had issues a week or so afterwords)- that's weird that this one didn't.

Oh well, best of luck- ampeg made great amps.

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Re: 1965 Ampeg Reverberocket II *Pictures Added*

Post by niemand » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:03 pm

.
Last edited by niemand on Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1965 Ampeg Reverberocket II *Pictures Added*

Post by Beau In Space » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:22 pm

noisepunk wrote:Music go round typically has a 30 day return policy (both times I've bought amps from them they had issues a week or so afterwords)- that's weird that this one didn't.

Oh well, best of luck- ampeg made great amps.

It will work out, man. The packing slip had a note attached explaining the "two day upon receipt" rule.

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Re: 1965 Ampeg Reverberocket II *Pictures Added*

Post by Mil » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:18 am

The amp looks better than expected and the model is one of the greats from the past. I think you had more than a decent deal and probably could, with a little bit of patience, resell it for similar money. Investing in maintenance is a normal thing and to be expected for a 50 year old amp.

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Re: 1965 Ampeg Reverberocket II *Pictures Added*

Post by noisepunk » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:50 pm

Beau In Space wrote:
noisepunk wrote:Music go round typically has a 30 day return policy (both times I've bought amps from them they had issues a week or so afterwords)- that's weird that this one didn't.

Oh well, best of luck- ampeg made great amps.

It will work out, man. The packing slip had a note attached explaining the "two day upon receipt" rule.
Staying positive is half the battle :)

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Re: 1965 Ampeg Reverberocket II *Pictures Added*

Post by Beau In Space » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:34 pm

noisepunk wrote:
Beau In Space wrote:
noisepunk wrote:Music go round typically has a 30 day return policy (both times I've bought amps from them they had issues a week or so afterwords)- that's weird that this one didn't.

Oh well, best of luck- ampeg made great amps.

It will work out, man. The packing slip had a note attached explaining the "two day upon receipt" rule.
Staying positive is half the battle
Ahahaha. Of course, it is possible that it will not be alright. I'll rephrase.

My emotional fortitude will be alright no matter what happens.

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Re: 1965 Ampeg Reverberocket II *Pictures Added*

Post by 46346 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:02 pm

looks great! that speaker is kind of an oddball - made by Quam Nichols. looks like a low-power ceramic. if it's blown or rubbing, i'd consider finding more of a known quantity for a replacement rather than reconing. i've actually haven't heard one knowingly, maybe they are great, but it doesn't *look* like a great match, given all of the great speakers available to us now.
i'd definitely try to borrow or swap with a 12" from another amp if you can. most of your tone issue could be right there.

like i mentioned earlier, i found an improvement on the CTS ALnico speaker that came stock with mine, and that's a decent speaker in the first place.
Cat Museum, ACME, Malcolm Mooney, Dream Apes, The Cooling Time, Kind Hearts and Coronets, Quarks

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Re: 1965 Ampeg Reverberocket II *Pictures Added*

Post by Beau In Space » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:47 am

I was reading that the Eminence C-Rex could be a nice candidate for the swap. Weber's Silver Bell was also suggested.

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