Fender 30 AKA The Blacksheep, handwired tube amp.

[WonderCouncil]

Well I tried doing a few searches but didn't come up with much. I know the Fender "75" has been discussed a bit here but was hoping for more specific info on the Fender "30" amp.

These seems to be a love 'em or hate em' kind of amplifier, not unlike the Rivera's. They also seem to be the last bastion of PTP wired amps that aren't astronomically priced. Although I have to say it appears they've been steadily going up in price. I was actually a bit hesitant to make a thread drawing attention to these before I've procured one. But alas my curiosity has gotten the better of me.

So does any one here have any real world experience with this short lived, sparse line of amps? It would seem the "30", "75" and "London Reverb" are all part of the same series, whether or not that is true I'm not sure, but I do see them lumped together quite frequently.

I've only had the opportunity to try out one of them, a "30" of the 1x12 variety. Completely stock if my memory serves me right. From what I recall I was pleased with the tone, seemed to pull off the typical "bell like clean" Fenders are generally known for. I can't say I was impressed with the drive...simply because I don't remember it. Maybe that says something in and of itself.

Either way I've been hankering for a 2x10 "30" for some time now. I'm getting close to be in the position to possibly buy one. I will admit, this amp being the underdog that it is, and all but unknown to most players is a big selling point. I'm not ashamed that I'm drawn to something out of pure novelty. Granted I would like for it to sound well too. Which I think it does, as I remember. Not being able to demo one out is quite unfortunate, but I'm certain that if I'm not happy with it I should be able to at least get back what I put in.

So lets hear some stories about this amp! Any guidance on pricing would be appreciated as well. There is one I was following that was for sale. Just wasn't convinced the asking price was quite right on it.

Related reading material.
http://www.thevintagesound.com/ffg/30.html
http://www.thevintagesound.com/ffg/75.html

[dinosaurkale->]

never heard of it until now and now i want one !

[mjet]

The London Reverb is an entirely different beast, which appeared a few years after the 30. (The London Reverb is also solid-state, not tube, and is from the Rivera era.)

The 30's brothers were the Fender 75 and the 140 and I believe they were made between 1980-82. The 75 was seemingly the most popular of these, appearing in a couple of combo configurations (1x12 & 1x15) and also as a head. The 30s were combo-only (1x12 & 2x10 configurations), and the 140s were only heads (and also the rarest of the three).



The conventional wisdom that I've heard about these is that they were designed in response to the popularity of Mesa-Boogie amps, and have enormously complicated wiring (the comments on that issue is from techs who complain about how hard they are to work on compared to older Fender designs). I had a 75 1x15" combo that was stolen (doh!). It took a while to tweak the numerous settings but it could put out some nice tones. The 75s are heavy, heavy beasts. I'd guess the 30 is heavier than you'd imagine and the 140 must be like a boat anchor.

[WonderCouncil]

never heard of it until now and now i want one !

Yea well, just don't let the cat outta the bag any more then I already have lol


Doh, yes the 140...I knew about that one some where in the back of my brain hah. Not sure why I put down London Reverb but yea, that is was solid state...they do both use those slider pots for EQ though

Just for the heck of it...
http://www.thevintagesound.com/ffg/140.html

Looking on there, would the 300PS in any way be a predecessor to the 30,75 and 140? Kind of as a side bar I really love the look/layout of the 300PS. They should be back that amp but as the 30PS or something, and shrink it down some like the Tiny Terror...(yes I know that would defeat the original intended purpose) But still, bring it back as a guitar amp...they'd sell some...maybe...I'd buy one...

I can't say I had much of a problem finding decent tones on the "30" although I do know that seems to be a big complaint people have. Saying that if you have the time and patience to sit around adjusting the knobs, that there is some good tones in there.

Here's the one I was following. Though it would make for a good head or possible 2x12 combo. Price just seemed a bit much for what it is, and what it's missing. Granted it is PTP wired...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FENDER-30-NO-RE ... 1e73cc32f8

Found this as well the other night...
http://nashville.craigslist.org/msg/3381051966.html
Are the 30's in fact more rare then the 75's? I'm guessing so. I know the 2x10 configuration is less common then the 1x12 for them. The going rate for the 75's don't seem to be all that high though compared to the 30. Haven't really kept up with the 140's but they do pop up on eBay fairly regularly.

[somnabula]

Hey Wondercouncil,

There is some info to be found on the fender 30:
link
link
link
link

Although, there is also a lot of confusion around these amp and indeed little people seem to know it.
I think it is important to stress that although the 30, 75 en 140 came out around the same era (pre-riviera), the 30 is a completely different beast than the 75 and 140.
The 30 design is still close to the silverface designs, but with pull-out boost (wich everyone seems to hate) some extra resistors and caps and the switching stuff included. Nonetheless they seem to sound similar to a silverface deluxe reverb but with more headroom as it uses 6L6's or a vibrolux
The 75 and 140 on the other hand have ultra-linear output transformers, giving them a completely different tonal character.

I have recently bought a fender 30 2x10" and I like the sounds I'm getting from it from both channels, but I can only compare to a silverface princeton non-reverb (6v6's) and a laney cub 10 (6v6's).

I am still doubting if I will try to change the circuit to AB763 or AA964 specs and thus turning it into a vibrolux reverb without the tremolo.

Good luck on finding one!

[WonderCouncil]

There is some info to be found on the fender 30:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... p?t=958819
http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.html?d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ber=510616
http://www.harmonycentral.com/products/83209" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.html?d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ber=727290

Thanks for the info and welcome to the board! Would you be able to repost the links, aside from the Harmony Central one? They don't seem to be working.

That's curious to hear about the difference between the 30 and the 75/140 amps. I wonder then how similar the 75 may be to the Bassman 70. I believe the Bassman 70 was an ultra-linear design too, and would have come out just prior to the 75.

I'm still on the hunt for a 30, although I'm not sure if I could afford one right now even if I found it. The 2x10 the the model I'm looking for as well. Would you mind telling how much you paid for your amp? Just curious.

[somnabula]

Hehe, Thanks for the warm welcome.

I dind't know the bassman 70, but google tells me it has indeed the ultra-linear power transformers.

I've paid €500 for this amp, which might be a bit too much as it doesn't have real vintage value (yet), but vintage amps are harder to come buy here in europe. You americans are really lucky.
I still bought it though as it was still point to point and it seems to be quite easily modable to blackface vibrolux specs.
The amp was in mint condition with the original speakers and new tubes. Anyway, if I can make it sound like a blackface vibrolux reverb (without the tremolo), I think €500 was still a very good price, as you don't build a new one for that price.
Using the "apple conversion rule" you shouldn't pay much more then $500 for this kind of amp, and maybe some of the "experts" on the internet might say that is still too much, but maybe that's because they don't really know this amp.

I'm still doubting if I will change it to AA964 vibrolux specs, but I think I will as it will make the amp sound even better (i hope) and I don't think that these amps will ever become collector's items as they a bit of frankenstein amps, with the whole switching circuitry. It seems this was fenders first attempt at a mesa boogie style switching amp.
They are really rare though, so maybe just maybe their value will rise.
Anyway, amps are for playing and not to be put in a museum, so I think I will do the mods, after I have taken an amp building course in February ( building a 5E3 tweed deluxe clone)

[WonderCouncil]

Very good, I'd love to see pictures if you have any. If you go ahead with the mods you should start a new thread on it. Would be pretty cool.

They do seem to be rare, at least the 2x10 versions. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for a 2x10 or at least the chassis. It would be cool to build it as a 2x12

[Mad-dog-australian]

I can't speak of the amp's value in the USA as I live in the UK at the moment, I picked up a Fender 30 on a trade deal here and I have to say this is probably one of the best, if not the best/most versatile amp have played or heard.

I am not a pro player but I have owned many amps and guitars over the years and I have a fair idea of what sounds decent and what is rubbish.

I will say I strongly disagree with all the cork sniffing and so called experts who say this amp needs this and that and is only worth a coupla hundred bucks etc, etc. I don't intend to insult anyone's intelligence but I routinely see secondhand opinions people learned off the Internet without any first hand experience of owning the amp. I am not a know it all, I just don't see the point in wasting loads of money on something that will only marginally, sonically improve an already very good amp. All I done to mine was drop a secondhand Jensen p12n in and it sounds super duper to my ears!

I'm not saying this amp couldn't sound better what I'm saying is this amp is already excellent, well above average even in stock form, and for sound/versatility/durability/value this amp would be hard, I meant to say impossible to beat!
If you play rock/blues/jazz/country this amp will has it all, end of subject.

Buy it and play it you will never look back.

[andy_tchp]

Looking on there, would the 300PS in any way be a predecessor to the 30,75 and 140?

I don't believe so, no. I think the only 'relation' to the 300PS in the Fender family is the 435 watt (not a typo) 400PS which was early/mid 70s.

I'd forgotten about the 'London Reverb' too. I borrowed/used one for a short while...right up there as one of the very worst amps ever IMO. Truly awful AND unreliable.

[WonderCouncil]

Mad-dog-australian, thanks for the input! I know there much be at least a few people out there that love these amps. Certainly seems to be the minority though. I'm sill keeping my eyes peeled for a 2x10 30.


What was worse about the London Reverb for you, the tone or reliability. That's another one I've been curious about. I've read quite a few positive things about it, tone wise at least. Clean tone that is.

[andy_tchp]

The tone.

It sounded horrendously harsh and ice-picky clean, in spite of all the EQ options. Less so overdriven, depending on what I was feeding into it. Overall, totally soulless.

For comparison: I coaxed much, much nicer sounds out of amps that most would sneer at - Namely: beaten up Fender Frontman and Marshall Valvestate combo amps available for hire at one of our old practice spaces, when my own amp was out of commission.

In short, I wouldn't even bother picking up a London Reverb being given away for free. YMMV, of course

[WonderCouncil]

The tone.

It sounded horrendously harsh and ice-picky clean, in spite of all the EQ options. Less so overdriven, depending on what I was feeding into it. Overall, totally soulless.

For comparison: I coaxed much, much nicer sounds out of amps that most would sneer at - Namely: beaten up Fender Frontman and Marshall Valvestate combo amps available for hire at one of our old practice spaces, when my own amp was out of commission.

In short, I wouldn't even bother picking up a London Reverb being given away for free. YMMV, of course

Interesting, interesting. What guitars were you using with it? Or pickup arrangement. You got me curious now. Nice to actually talk with someone who had direct experience with one. I would think a speaker swap could help it.

I'm very intrigued by the Rivera Showman 1x15 too. Another solid state one. Looks very similar to the London Reverb with the EQ set up. Wonder how the circuits differ, if at all. Looks like it may just be a 1x15 London Reverb.

[Mad-dog-australian]

No props wondercouncil,

Hope it helps. I can't speak highly enough of the 30 it's a fantastic amp.

I can't comment on the London Reverb as I have never used one.

[andy_tchp]

The tone.

It sounded horrendously harsh and ice-picky clean, in spite of all the EQ options. Less so overdriven, depending on what I was feeding into it. Overall, totally soulless.

For comparison: I coaxed much, much nicer sounds out of amps that most would sneer at - Namely: beaten up Fender Frontman and Marshall Valvestate combo amps available for hire at one of our old practice spaces, when my own amp was out of commission.

In short, I wouldn't even bother picking up a London Reverb being given away for free. YMMV, of course

Interesting, interesting. What guitars were you using with it? Or pickup arrangement. You got me curious now. Nice to actually talk with someone who had direct experience with one. I would think a speaker swap could help it.

I'm very intrigued by the Rivera Showman 1x15 too. Another solid state one. Looks very similar to the London Reverb with the EQ set up. Wonder how the circuits differ, if at all. Looks like it may just be a 1x15 London Reverb.

I generally use single coil equipped guitars, at the time it would've been a Tele and my very warm sounding Hofner 173. I love bright sounding amps and guitars (I use a Vibrosonic Reverb with a Jaguar and Jazzmasters) but the London Reverb sounded shithouse. A speaker swap probably would help it, but you'd be paying out $100-$200 for a nice speaker to put in an amp worth $100.

There's a thread on the Showman combo here, with shots of the insides. I love 15" speakers for guitar!
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums//vi ... hp?t=35107