bass amp for my cab?

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burntumber
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bass amp for my cab?

Post by burntumber » Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:06 pm

I have a BAG END S12-D I really like, though I'd like to get a different amp for it.

I play guitar, Bass VI, an electro acoustic, and I have a Yamaha reface cp that maybe I'd run a few pedals through.
Might get a normal 4 string bass in the future also.
So, need an amp that can handle all of this, preferably solid state, around $500 or so.

I'm ignorant about matching ohms and watts and all that. All the info is here:
https://bagend.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/S12-D.pdf


Thanks in advance!

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Plumerai
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Re: bass amp for my cab?

Post by Plumerai » Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:13 am

for small & light: genz benz streamliner

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marqueemoon
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Re: bass amp for my cab?

Post by marqueemoon » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:02 am

The Quilter Tone Block 202 looks promising.

Enough juice for bass (at least IMO) and is designed to be used with modelers so you can defeat the “guitar amp” voicing which could be useful for bass/keys duty. Also has an onboard limiter.

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burntumber
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Re: bass amp for my cab?

Post by burntumber » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:00 am

These two look like great amps, though they're both out of my $500ish budget.

What is the right wattage and ohms I would need for this cab?

Thanks!

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Re: bass amp for my cab?

Post by marqueemoon » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:21 am

burntumber wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:00 am
These two look like great amps, though they're both out of my $500ish budget.

What is the right wattage and ohms I would need for this cab?

Thanks!
The specs you linked say 8 ohms, so just about anything will work.

Bass instruments require more power to reproduce cleanly, so you’ll need more juice for that reason. I’d say 150-300 watts is probably the sweet spot.

A cheaper option that wound be better for bass and keys would be a GK 400RB. They are usually 2-$300 depending on condition. I just don’t think it’s ideal to plug a guitar straight into. I use one for bass and I love it though.

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Re: bass amp for my cab?

Post by burntumber » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:47 am

There's a G&K 800RB in a pawn shop in my city. https://www.usedvictoria.com/classified ... B_25969614

What I've been using for the cab is a ZT Lunchbox. 200watts, 8 ohms.

I've been experiencing volume loss. I play 20 mins or so and it's fine, after that the amp goes quiet.

The place I bought the cab told me the ZT would be fine.
I went back and explained the volume issue and then they told me I'd need something that's 500watts.

Went to a different store and explained the issue and they tried to sell me something that was only 50watts.

So that's why I'm confused.

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Re: bass amp for my cab?

Post by somanytoys » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:15 am

The specs say it will run 300-600 watts @ 8 ohms, which seems to be dependent on constant or programmed. Not sure what they mean by programmed, but I’d probably try to hover around the 300 watts mark to be sure you don’t blow your speaker.

I had the ZT Lunchbox, I wasn’t a big fan overall. The idea was cool, but it wasn't for me, no matter how much I tried.

GK makes nice heads, I have a Hartke 3500 head and an Acoustic B200H head, both are good and pretty versatile (I’m selling the Acoustic head only because I don’t need it).

I would think that one of those 3 brands should be able to give you what you need, with very good tonal flexibility. Then it’s about what your speaker was designed to do tone-wise.
-David

It's a boost booster, to boost your boost - it makes your tone much muchier.

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Re: bass amp for my cab?

Post by burntumber » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:34 pm

I shot an email to BAGEND and got a reply,

" If the S12-D does have our E-12 driver, which it would have had from the factory, then it is rated at 200W continuous power. And though we do rate if for 600W peak power, I generally recommend using between 200 and 400W. I have included here the spec sheet from our website: https://bagend.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/S12-D.pdf Now why you would be experiencing volume loss is somewhat puzzling.

When the voice coil of a cone driver gets very warm, it can create a condition called thermal compression. This starts to limit the amount that the cone travels and therefore will give you less output from that driver. And though that sounds like what you are describing, I have a hard time thinking that would be the case when using a 200W head. And since the amp seems to keep up it's performance with another cab, then I just don't know what to say in this case. I should note though that if the amp is hitting its clipping point amp with regularity, then that will equate to directly heating up the coil. This could start to create the compression issue. And over time, could eventually cause the coil to fail. So if you are often running the amp up to its full output to get the level you are looking for, then it may be worth considering stepping up to a bit more powerful amp. "

I might try renting either a bass or guitar head at 300watts, 8 ohms and see if I get the same noise drop issue.

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Re: bass amp for my cab?

Post by burntumber » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:50 am

...and now a different person from BAGEND has emailed me with

" The driver in the original cabinet is rated at 200 watts. Use a 200 watt
amp or less.

Jim Wischmeyer
Bag End Loudspeakers
1201 Armstrong Street
Algonquin IL 60102 "

so....what the hell??

one tells me 300-600 wats.
another 200 or less.

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Re: bass amp for my cab?

Post by marqueemoon » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:03 am

So weird.

Have you checked the impedance of the cab with a multimeter just to make sure nothing is funky there?

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Re: bass amp for my cab?

Post by burntumber » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:14 pm

I haven't checked, no.

I'm starting to think of letting this cab go and downsizing to a more bedroom friendly combo amp. :wacko:

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Re: bass amp for my cab?

Post by somanytoys » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:46 pm

I think renting an amp appropriate for the speaker is a good idea. You can try a 300w head, and only push it to around 200w. That way the amp has plenty of headroom left and you’ll know if something is wrong with your speaker or you just need a better/more powerful amp - and just have to watch your output level to the speaker.
-David

It's a boost booster, to boost your boost - it makes your tone much muchier.

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Re: bass amp for my cab?

Post by burntumber » Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:49 pm

meh, I couldn't see any heads I wanted to try at the big box store.
They had some G&K that was out of my price range.
Traynor Small Bloc that I'm not sure about.

They had a Fender Rumble 200 and 800.
If they had the 500 I'd go for that.

Another shop said they'd take the BagEnd on consignment.
I'm scared of buying a new amp, and the BagEnd not selling.

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Re: bass amp for my cab?

Post by somanytoys » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:18 am

A lot also depends on what kind of sound you want.

I would recommend that you get a pretty good ~200 - 500 watt solid state power amp (QSC, Crown, or whatever) that you can also use for a pa or almost anything, so it should always be useable for more than just the bass rig. And it will adjust to the cabinet’s ohms (unlike tube amps).

Then you could get something like a Tech 21 preamp pedal, like the VTDI, which gets a lot of Ampeg amp sounds, their YYZ pedal if you like Geddy Lee tones, or the Tronographic Rusty Box, which does the Traynor TS-50 sounds, or something more in whatever vein you’re looking for.

Just make sure that it’s a preamp pedal (or has the preamp ability), so that it feeds the power amp enough signal - line level instead of instrument level, and doesn’t starve the power amp and speaker.

The power amp will just cleanly amplify whatever the preamp pedal’s sound is, and you can always just get different pedals for other flavors, but the power amp remains because it’s neutral.

I think the speaker is going to be a good one. It’s possible that it’s blown (?). Even if it is, it can be re-coned, which (I think) would be much better in the end than trying to sell it.
-David

It's a boost booster, to boost your boost - it makes your tone much muchier.

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