Cabinet covering/finishing question

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somanytoys
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Cabinet covering/finishing question

Post by somanytoys » Tue May 26, 2020 1:42 pm

I bought a well made & sanded raw pine 2x10 cabinet recently that I’m going to finish & load my Weber Blue Pup & Celestion Greenback into. Maybe the Weber Silver, depends on how the Greenback sounds with the Blue Pup.

Aneeeway...

I bought some powder stain mix (in various colors) and hand rollers from Amazon, and some yellow stain/poly mix and some glue (for the tolex) from a hardware store. I had already bought some nice black tolex quite a while ago that I’m going to use to cover the outside.

I’m staining it a light orange first (now) with the powder stain, then I plan on applying the yellow stain/sealant, to get a sort of (hopefully blended) 2-tone egg yolk color, somewhere between store bought egg yolk yellow and brown, country egg yolk orange (that’s the plan, anyway).

I have a classical guitar that is this color and it’s beautiful, in case you’re wondering why a yolk color.

The stain was originally mostly for the front of the baffle that will be visible through the grill, but it also has a removable back piece to make it an open back cab. So since you can probably see inside from there with it off (to whatever degree), I’m think of staining the entire cabinet (mostly the inside). I don’t want it half-assed looking anywhere when I’m finished, so that’s the reason I’m staining most of it.

2 questions:
1) Is there any reason not to use the sealant on the inside of the cabinet? I figure that will protect the wood and help project the sound.

2) If I decide to stain the whole thing for the hell of it, even tho tolex will cover a large portion of it, should I not use the sealant where I plan to apply the glue for the tolex?

I don’t really see a reason to stain where the tolex will definitely cover, but is it better to seal it, or just apply glue to the raw wood and then apply the tolex - would the glue would act as a sealant anyway?

Any advice, knowledge or warning/experiences would be much appreciated.
-David

It's a boost booster, to boost your boost - it makes your tone much muchier.

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Re: Cabinet covering/finishing question

Post by somanytoys » Wed May 27, 2020 7:47 am

Oh well, I’m just going to keep moving forward with the idea that it’s better to seal the wood inside the cab for the wood’s sake, even if it might sacrifice performance in some way, and leave the outer wood raw for the glue to adhere to.
-David

It's a boost booster, to boost your boost - it makes your tone much muchier.

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Re: Cabinet covering/finishing question

Post by Scout » Wed May 27, 2020 8:01 am

It’s common to finish solid wood entirely , any raw sections will absorb moisture at a different rate and could lead to warping/ bowing. I would seal the whole piece to be safe since it’s not plywood, the tolex glue should stick to any finish.

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Re: Cabinet covering/finishing question

Post by somanytoys » Wed May 27, 2020 8:17 am

Cool, thank you very much. That’s about where I am now, so I’ll do that.

My biggest fear was that the finish might somehow make the glue less effective than directly on the grain of the wood, and the tolex might start to come off prematurely.

Thanks, I appreciate it.
-David

It's a boost booster, to boost your boost - it makes your tone much muchier.

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Re: Cabinet covering/finishing question

Post by oid » Wed May 27, 2020 12:43 pm

somanytoys wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 8:17 am
Cool, thank you very much. That’s about where I am now, so I’ll do that.

My biggest fear was that the finish might somehow make the glue less effective than directly on the grain of the wood, and the tolex might start to come off prematurely.

Thanks, I appreciate it.
Most glues will not stick to poly, best not to put that stuff anywhere you want to glue tolex down, stains should not hurt anything as long as they are stains and not stain/finish mixes like the poly stains that are common. As to the inside, there is reason the inside of old cabs were not finished, it lets the wood breath, moisture that gets in can still get out easily, remember that finishes are not water proof, they just slow the absorbtion but also slow the release and the longer the wood is wet, the greater the risk of issues arrising. If the pine is well dried and seasoned, it is probably safe to go either way, but most pine is sold on the wet side, and another reason while old cabs were not sealed on the inside, they did not have to worry about the wood being a little wet, it could finish drying after construction.
Logic gates based on billiard-ball computer designs have also been made to operate using live soldier crabs of the species Mictyris guinotae in place of the billiard balls.

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Re: Cabinet covering/finishing question

Post by somanytoys » Wed May 27, 2020 3:23 pm

Thanks for the info.

I think the wood was pretty dried out, it definitely soaked up the stain quickly.

I already did the entire thing with a stain/finish mix, although it’s a pretty light coat, just enough to cover instead of the thick layer that the directions stated. I don’t think it’s going to be enough to be any kind of a problem one way or the other.

I’m only going to do more coats on the baffle, which is the main part that will be seen, except maybe when the back piece is off and it’s a bit open.

It’s turning out nicely, I’m glad I did the more-yellow orange first, and then went over it with the honey stain/poly mix. It looks much nicer than the honey stain/poly alone. I think it’s going to turn out pretty well, especially for a novice, but the hard part is going to be the tolex.

Hopefully the glue works, but I can glue the tolex again one day, if it comes to that.
-David

It's a boost booster, to boost your boost - it makes your tone much muchier.

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Re: Cabinet covering/finishing question

Post by Scout » Wed May 27, 2020 3:46 pm

Sounds like you're there. The tolex will indeed be the hard part, a light finish won't affect the contact adhesive , if that's what you're using. I have a tweed deluxe from Cox amps that has a masterful covering job , all the stripes line up exactly at the seams, that would drive me to drink if I had to do it.

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Re: Cabinet covering/finishing question

Post by somanytoys » Wed May 27, 2020 5:17 pm

I’m moving pretty quickly, I feel like, for something I haven’t done before. The tolex is going to be a beast, because I’m going to have to concentrate a lot form that. Yeah, it’s the adhesive in a paint can kind of thing, seemed to be right for this.

I watched a YouTube video of a guy covering a combo amp cabinet that he built. He goes through everything well and it came out looking very nice, very professional. I’ll probably watch that at least once more, take notes and give it a shot. The main thing is measuring correctly, it was pretty expensive tolex, so I don’t want to waste any unnecessarily.

Oh, it WILL drive me to drink, but that push only takes a slight breeze anyway, and I have a fan. I just won’t start drinking until I’m close to a finishing point each time.

I don’t want sober me to get all pissed off at drunk me for fucking something stupid up the day before...
-David

It's a boost booster, to boost your boost - it makes your tone much muchier.

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Re: Cabinet covering/finishing question

Post by Scout » Wed May 27, 2020 5:42 pm

You can do it! (sober) ;)

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Re: Cabinet covering/finishing question

Post by oid » Wed May 27, 2020 10:02 pm

Just give a light sanding to anywhere you want glue to stick with 180 or 220 and you should be fine.
Logic gates based on billiard-ball computer designs have also been made to operate using live soldier crabs of the species Mictyris guinotae in place of the billiard balls.

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Re: Cabinet covering/finishing question

Post by somanytoys » Thu May 28, 2020 7:48 am

Okay, I’ll do that - thanks.

It should only really be necessary for the larger areas, right? Or do I need to also do it on the smaller, thinner areas that I’ll be wrapping & folding the edges & flaps of the tolex onto as well?
-David

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Re: Cabinet covering/finishing question

Post by Scout » Thu May 28, 2020 9:04 am

You can scuff sand wherever the tolex will be going, it’s quick and easy.

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Re: Cabinet covering/finishing question

Post by oid » Thu May 28, 2020 10:27 am

I would be more concerned about the small areas, the points where it wraps and ends, these are the spots where damage happens and things start coming undone, especially where the tolex ends inside the box..
Logic gates based on billiard-ball computer designs have also been made to operate using live soldier crabs of the species Mictyris guinotae in place of the billiard balls.

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Re: Cabinet covering/finishing question

Post by somanytoys » Thu May 28, 2020 10:48 am

That makes sense, but to me (and I could easily wrong about it), it seems like it would be easier to fix the wraps and ends than a big bubble coming up in one of the main covered sections.

That’s my biggest worry, because it seems like that would require pretty much a total redux, instead of just maybe spot re-sanding and applying some more glue to the extremities to try to keep the loose flaps down.

I think because I did such a light coat everywhere, there is still a lot of grain feel and texture to the wood everywhere. It’s not like a nice, thick, smooth shellac job. I think that would likely require a spray gun to do effectively, because I have no experience doing this kind of stuff myself, just watched others do some painting and sealing with spray guns.

I just applied a 2nd coat to the front of the baffle, and even that’s not really all that thick yet. I have about enough left for on more coat on it, since that’s going to be the main exposed part without any tolex.
-David

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Re: Cabinet covering/finishing question

Post by Scout » Thu May 28, 2020 12:25 pm

I figured you were doing a light coat and that it wouldn't interfere with the adhesive. The large areas generally don't come loose, it's more the joints and edges which will start lifting, whether it be an amp or a case or whatever.

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