Gigantic Tube Amps for Bass

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rumfoord
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Gigantic Tube Amps for Bass

Post by rumfoord » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:01 am

My bass head blew up, and I'm in the middle of figuring out what to do. Wanna help?! I have a weird setup, and I must like it a little weird because I'm positive the quickest and easiest solution would be to stop being so weird and get a more conventional setup. But that doesn't seem right.
;)
All suggestions are welcome, though!

So, the bass head in question is a Danelectro DS-100:

This one's not mine, but aren't they adorable?
Image

It has two output sections with 2 6L6s per side. I play it through a Mesa Diesel 2x15 cab that somebody stripped, stained, and installed some kind of OEM Eminence speakers that sound GREAT but are pretty inefficient (94dB). I had an old 250w GK 400B a while back, and that got loud but the Danelectro seemed to actually rattle the nails in my house at the time (ie, seemed louder).

I'm playing bass in a band right now with a drummer that's good at matching any volume, a guitarist playing an Ampeg B-25B (this is 50w) through a Marshall 4x12, and a keyboard player and vocalist that uses the PA. From a detached point of view, the combination of low keyboard parts and guitar parts written in the lower ranges of guitar land are not an ideal environment for me on bass. But I've been able to do alright, and I have no complaints.

All this background should give more context for what power I might need. In a way, I'd say the DS-100 is about equivalent to a 30w amp for guitar: could be totally fine in some band/stage contexts, but at the moment I need both more headroom and volume. I once stumbled across a free Peavey MX, so I've been supplementing the DS-100 with the Peavey and a ported 2x10. It's been sounding super great. I play a Squier Jaguar bass (the long scale, passive one; probably 85% P pickup, 15% J) with roundwound strings, mostly with my fingers. I like the way this setup sustains but also has a lot of dynamics. Plus, I like the way there's some headroom for boost/dirt pedals. Lately, the bass is also tuned AEBE (think, drop-A -ish), but I rarely use the low string.

Ok, so...
The Peavey is 130w hybrid with a quad 6L6 power amp. I have the combo version, so it's currently removed from the cabinet and resting upside down atop the two bass cabinets. I'm planning to build a head case for it, but you know how THAT goes.
:fp:
And now, I took the DS-100 to the shop because one side wasn't working and the repair bill is very very high. I've only talked to the shop assistant at this point, but I think it needs a couple transformers, and all new tubes.

So, I've got a janky setup that I sort of actually love as if it's a diamond in the rough. But I think of myself as a guitar player, so my assessment of that could be off. This is also me here in hobby land. Also, like every good bassist, I'm not very good.

Being a guitar player at heart means, for me personally, that
  • I like tube bass amps better than SS, just like I like tube guitar amps better than SS.
  • I'm possibly an idiot.
  • I'm skeptical of advice from TalkBass. You're the only ones I trust, OSG. !
  • I love Fender cleans on guitar, but I have a real weak spot for fuzzy bass (to a fault).
  • I prefer passive pickups.
  • I lurv weird old obscure amps (to a fault).
  • It feels like a waste to buy an amp that would not also sound amazing and great with a guitar or baritone.
  • Having a stereo rig is unreasonably and embarassingly satisfying (to a fault).
  • I know enough to know better, but I'm basically always fighting an urge to add distortion post shimmer reverb because I DON'T CARE THAT IT'S A BASS IT SOUNDS AWESOME.
  • It's possible that what I actually need is a compressor pedal.
The repair estimate is $475 (USD). I'm in a position where I can afford this, but it's enough (and I have enough other gear) that it would feel irresponsible to just pay it without paying attention. I bought the amp about 9 years ago for about $450. I've probably put as much as $400 into repairs in the first few years.

So this amp is obviously haunted. But I do love it. Maybe it makes sense though to put that repair money towards something else. The Peavey sounds really great for what it is, but it has a kind of honk that's hard for me to dial out (and it's not an amp that I could sell for much). Even with it's faults, I'd say I prefer the tone of the Peavey over most typical SS bass rigs. But it's not like I've tried very many things out in a band context.

Chapter 75: the end, I promise
Options:
  • Besides just fixing it back to stock, I'm wondering if I could find someone to rebuild the Danelectro for bass. Would bigger transformers fit?? Is it possible to put KT88s in there or something?? I don't really mind continuing to use the Peavey in this case. The real question is about doubling down on this lifelong commitment to a haunted amp. I'm also thinking I might buy something for now, and spend some time saving money and finding a good tech. I haven't really done a search for an amp tech. I just took it to the place near my house (and he seems nice).
  • My drummer knows some people with recording studios that might be interested in buying the DS-100. The only thing is :'(
I've been scouring the Guitar Center website, and I could pair something else with the Peavey...
  • something solid state ... like an SWR Studio 220, or maybe a cheap tube guitar head like a Carvin X100B (The price on these is back down to around $300. Part of me wonders if two X100Bs would actually be better than a lot of things in that $600 price range. Is that stupid?)
But I could be putting money towards having a single bass amp like a normal person: If you read all this, thanks for reading!

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Re: Gigantic Tube Amps for Bass

Post by windmill » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:56 pm

Nice post

You should get the Danelectro repaired as you are happy with its sound, unless something more "interesting" comes along.

You wouldn't be on OSG if you were a normal person so dont expect normal answers.

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Re: Gigantic Tube Amps for Bass

Post by somanytoys » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:45 am

Very nice post, and Windmill is right. So since he said that, here’s my (also long winded) reply…

I have a pretty whack setup myself. I’m traditionally a bass player, that’s always played guitar on the side, but now I mostly play guitar with along with a drum machine and bass parts that I’ve looped for that purpose. I have only tube guitar amps (6 of them), but interestingly I have only SS bass amps. I would love a tube bass amp, but strangely I’ve never bought one yet.

My original bass amp is an SWR Redhead (pushing its own 2x10 + horn), into a crossover that goes into a QSC power amp that’s pushing an SWR Big Ben 18” cab. I keep this amp clean because that’s what it’s designed to do. The Redhead is actually a hybrid, tube pre and a ss poweramp.
Next I run an Acoustic B200H head that’s pushing a Hartke 2x10 cab and a 15” cab, both with the aluminum XL speakers. I typically run dirt on this one, either a Jext Telez UniDrive (hamburger version) or Dizzy Tone fuzz (triple black version) that are (sort of) made for bass, into an Industrial Electric RM-1N reverb.

Then I run a Tronographic Rusty Box, which is a pedal that was designed to be the preamp of a Traynor TS 50B in pedal form, into another QSC SS power amp, that right now goes into a GK 4x10 cab (which I’m trying to sell). I use whichever other Jext Telez mentioned above that I’m not using with the other rig -and funnily enough, just like you mentioned, I’ve been using a Neunabor Saraphim reverb fully shimmered out for a while now, because it just sounds awesome with the other 2 sounds going. I typically don’t use the dirt with the shimmer, but it’s there in case I want to swap the shimmer out for dirt, or do both.

So anyway, my looper is pushing all of that, which is midi-controlled by a Beat Buddy drum machine going through a PA. And I typically play guitar through 2 pedal boards with 2 different chains each, with each chain pushing a tube amp (4 total), and sometimes record as much as I can, which is only 2 amps, with the drums & bass loop going direct. It’s quite the circus, but it’s my thing.

Anyway, now that I’ve flown my own freak flag saying all that, I would say that if you like that haunted amp, which it sounds like you do, it’s worth the money to keep & fix. You aren’t going to have a good tube amp that you like, that isn’t going to need some love & money once in a while – that’s just how it goes with tube amps. You can always shop around, and if you do find something you like, you can buy that, and make the decision of whether to keep or sell this one afterwards - a while afterwards, long after the honeymoon with the other amp is over. But I wouldn’t let one go that you really like, until you find something that you know you like better. A lot better. But really, I’d still keep both of them, if you can. If you ever have to put the other one in the shop, this one could be your backup, and you might find that you still really like it when you play it. And if the Peavey isn’t really worth selling, you could actually leave that one where you play, and bring the other one when you want to, but you’d always have one where you play in case you don’t feel like carting one of the better ones there or making a special trip to get it.

Keep being weird and do what you really think is right, go with your heart and not your head or what you think other people would say. I would agree with your first impression – don’t worry about being practical or normal or whatever - I think you’ll be happier with yourself in the end. There's always going to be time to get rid of things...
-David

Vaya con Covfefe.

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Re: Gigantic Tube Amps for Bass

Post by rumfoord » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:03 am

Thanks and Thanks!!!

Yeah, I'm going to keep the Danelectro. The repair estimate is $100 cheaper now, too (found a cheaper replacement transformer).

Oh perfect, somanytoys, that sounds like a spectacular circus!

The reason I'd mentioned the SWR Studio 220 specifically above was because I'd found one for sale on the GC website. It seemed like a good deal, since it should have come with a road case. It didn't ship with one, it was buzzy (probably just needed a new preamp tube), and something was rattling around inside. So I decided to return it. But actually, I like it a whole lot. I bet that Redhead sounds just as great.

Image
FYI, I wasn't playing it stacked like that. (The lighting in the practice space is also terrible for photos.)

I took it to my practice space for a couple hours to tinker with it. And I found some GREAT sounds. I ran my pedal board into the SWR preamp, sent the pre-out to the power section of the Peavey MX to the 2x15, and the SWR power section running the 2x10. I LOVE the eq section of the SWR. I also really liked the warmth from the preamp tube. I get how people say the SWR tone is smooth. With this setup, and through these cabs, I didn't have a problem getting a tone I liked that wasn't too crisp in the way some people talk about the SWR tone. But I didn't dare boost any frequencies...cut only. The flexible EQ section really made the tube power section of the MX sound so much better.

Image
Image
Image

At home, and with a guitar (both through a 1x10 bass speaker, and through a guitar 2x12), the clean tone of the SWR was about the best SS clean I've heard. So there was a lot to like. I still felt like SWR gave me just enough ear fatigue that—no matter how good my conscious mind tells me it sounds—I want to play a little less.

Currently, I ordered a used Peavey Penta that I hope will work with bass. A 90s SVT Classic came up on craigslist for $850 (that's pretty good I think), but I kinda think I'll stick with two guitar amps.

Peavey Penta:
Image
4 EL34s and allegedly heavy transformers ==> 140W.

The clean channel will probably work best, but the JCM800 channels are also interesting to me. Unfortunately, they manufactured this amp with a "mudflap girl" channel (jeeeeez). I plan to put stickers or something over that. I don't have any problems with the quality or status associated with playing Peavey amps. But the Southern Rock connection is seriously annoying, though. I hate hate Southern Rock. Maybe I just need a sticker on the amp that says that.

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Re: Gigantic Tube Amps for Bass

Post by Drewbertca » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:56 am

I'm Using a Bassbreaker 45 Head into an old Traynor cab loaded with an EVM-15B and an Eminence Hempdog. Keeps up with a heavy handed drummer without breaking up. The cab I bought with a cheap 15 in it. Someone opened up the top 12" opening to 15" so I put a better driver in it and bought the Hempdog. Both very efficient speakers. Loud setup for 45 Watts. Also works for guitar.

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Re: Gigantic Tube Amps for Bass

Post by Telemnemonics » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:28 pm

Just a thought, the Fender Bassman 135 head might be found cheap and do the due.
Then if you're into ripping apart stuff and reassembling it in odd ways you might try a late '70s UL 135w Twin
reverb, which is pretty much the same as the Bassman 135.
I've owned and used both amps for guitar plus used the Bassman for bass.

Cool weird Dano bass amp!
Never saw that one...

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Re: Gigantic Tube Amps for Bass

Post by beauzooka » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:03 pm

I use a Music Man HD150 head for bass, which is relatively inexpensive, relatively lightweight, loud & clean. The HD130 is excellent too.

Image

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Re: Gigantic Tube Amps for Bass

Post by Telemnemonics » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:55 pm

There's always the old Ampeg V4/ V4B/ VT22, all of which can do guitar or bass equally well. The VT22 actually managed OK for bass even with the open back 2x12. Not ideal though and too heavy as well.
There were metric tons of those around for decades but I haven't seen one in years.
Where are they now?

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Re: Gigantic Tube Amps for Bass

Post by garyfanclub » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:49 am

Telemnemonics wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:55 pm
There's always the old Ampeg V4/ V4B/ VT22, all of which can do guitar or bass equally well. The VT22 actually managed OK for bass even with the open back 2x12. Not ideal though and too heavy as well.
There were metric tons of those around for decades but I haven't seen one in years.
Where are they now?
  • I love Fender cleans on guitar, but I have a real weak spot for fuzzy bass (to a fault).
A V4 will do this in spades, really raunchy and saturated when you really turn it up. Would also recommend a V2 if you want saturated bass at lower volumes. Mates with an efficient cab, the 4 will do a warm and grainy old school clean tone. Won’t ever be pristine at volume though. That said, one of my favorite bass sounds is a V4 and a bass with flats.
  • I lurv weird old obscure amps (to a fault).
Ok, so you don’t mind fixing and carrying them too, right? ;)

The older Ampegs are pushing 50 years old, are full of weird tunes, and run hot. Include that many have been modded and/or ridden hard and many are bound to need service. Budget some cash to get an overhaul by someone who knows these amps - can get expensive and frustrating otherwise.
  • It feels like a waste to buy an amp that would not also sound amazing and great with a guitar or baritone.
Never tried a V4 with guitar, because I’m not crazy, but I love my V2 - same tonestack, but 60 rather than 120 watts. Reverb is great, versatile mids means you have tons of discretion on where you want to be in a mix, not to mention a good number of tonal options right at your fingertips. Only downside is heft - ooofff!

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Re: Gigantic Tube Amps for Bass

Post by marqueemoon » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:37 am

I like the Music Man idea.

I see Fender’s higher wattage Bassman options have also been mentioned.

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Re: Gigantic Tube Amps for Bass

Post by Telemnemonics » Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:18 pm

garyfanclub wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:49 am
Telemnemonics wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:55 pm
There's always the old Ampeg V4/ V4B/ VT22, all of which can do guitar or bass equally well. The VT22 actually managed OK for bass even with the open back 2x12. Not ideal though and too heavy as well.
There were metric tons of those around for decades but I haven't seen one in years.
Where are they now?
  • I love Fender cleans on guitar, but I have a real weak spot for fuzzy bass (to a fault).
A V4 will do this in spades, really raunchy and saturated when you really turn it up. Would also recommend a V2 if you want saturated bass at lower volumes. Mates with an efficient cab, the 4 will do a warm and grainy old school clean tone. Won’t ever be pristine at volume though. That said, one of my favorite bass sounds is a V4 and a bass with flats.
  • I lurv weird old obscure amps (to a fault).
Ok, so you don’t mind fixing and carrying them too, right? ;)

The older Ampegs are pushing 50 years old, are full of weird tunes, and run hot. Include that many have been modded and/or ridden hard and many are bound to need service. Budget some cash to get an overhaul by someone who knows these amps - can get expensive and frustrating otherwise.
  • It feels like a waste to buy an amp that would not also sound amazing and great with a guitar or baritone.
Never tried a V4 with guitar, because I’m not crazy, but I love my V2 - same tonestack, but 60 rather than 120 watts. Reverb is great, versatile mids means you have tons of discretion on where you want to be in a mix, not to mention a good number of tonal options right at your fingertips. Only downside is heft - ooofff!
Yeah I had a VT22 (amps that heavy should be illegal) and a V4, the V4 had a repair where the pcb was burned away at one of the power tubes.
I mean the board had been burned away completely so a new socket got mounted on a new piece of fiberglass or whatever they used!

I haven't taken that many of the big ampegs apart so can't say how well they are still holding up with their pioneering pcb construction.

But now the internet says pcbs are just as reliable and long lasting as hand wired to turret or eyelet board, so all those old Ampegs should still be working, right?
I have a circa '61 Reverberocket out in the garage, but that's a hand wired rats nest...

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Re: Gigantic Tube Amps for Bass

Post by garyfanclub » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:34 pm

Telemnemonics wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:18 pm
garyfanclub wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:49 am
Telemnemonics wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:55 pm
There's always the old Ampeg V4/ V4B/ VT22, all of which can do guitar or bass equally well. The VT22 actually managed OK for bass even with the open back 2x12. Not ideal though and too heavy as well.
There were metric tons of those around for decades but I haven't seen one in years.
Where are they now?
  • I love Fender cleans on guitar, but I have a real weak spot for fuzzy bass (to a fault).
A V4 will do this in spades, really raunchy and saturated when you really turn it up. Would also recommend a V2 if you want saturated bass at lower volumes. Mates with an efficient cab, the 4 will do a warm and grainy old school clean tone. Won’t ever be pristine at volume though. That said, one of my favorite bass sounds is a V4 and a bass with flats.
  • I lurv weird old obscure amps (to a fault).
Ok, so you don’t mind fixing and carrying them too, right? ;)

The older Ampegs are pushing 50 years old, are full of weird tunes, and run hot. Include that many have been modded and/or ridden hard and many are bound to need service. Budget some cash to get an overhaul by someone who knows these amps - can get expensive and frustrating otherwise.
  • It feels like a waste to buy an amp that would not also sound amazing and great with a guitar or baritone.
Never tried a V4 with guitar, because I’m not crazy, but I love my V2 - same tonestack, but 60 rather than 120 watts. Reverb is great, versatile mids means you have tons of discretion on where you want to be in a mix, not to mention a good number of tonal options right at your fingertips. Only downside is heft - ooofff!
Yeah I had a VT22 (amps that heavy should be illegal) and a V4, the V4 had a repair where the pcb was burned away at one of the power tubes.
I mean the board had been burned away completely so a new socket got mounted on a new piece of fiberglass or whatever they used!

I haven't taken that many of the big ampegs apart so can't say how well they are still holding up with their pioneering pcb construction.

But now the internet says pcbs are just as reliable and long lasting as hand wired to turret or eyelet board, so all those old Ampegs should still be working, right?
I have a circa '61 Reverberocket out in the garage, but that's a hand wired rats nest...
Yeah I don’t know what it is about V4s, but mine also had heat issues - seems to come with the territory of old Ampegs that double as space heaters. Funny enough, my V2, which supposedly runs even hotter, has been exceptionally reliable and hasn’t had any serious heat related malfunctions.

Like I said above, a solid tech is a must if you’re going into old Ampeg territory. But the sound... unparalleled!

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Re: Gigantic Tube Amps for Bass

Post by rumfoord » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:50 am

Great suggestions everyone, thank you! (and Happy New Year!!!)

It's so hard for me to imagine a Bassbreaker 45 being loud enough! But that's awesome. My current cab is sooo inefficient. That's probably mostly why I can't picture it.

I've definitely been very tempted to get any of those ~70s ~100w amps. This is the tone in my heart. Roughly $500 is about a good cheap price for an old tube amp. But I probably need 2, so I'm going to be as creative as possible!

Also, my goodness, Music Man amps are not at all as cheap as you'd think lately! Here's a 2x12 HD130 near me for $875.
https://boston.craigslist.org/nos/msg/d ... 01296.html

They do sound really REALLY great though. My friend (that I used to play with) used one through a Fender 2x15, and then later a flat back Ampeg 8x10. It sounded amazing.

Actually, when I played guitar in a band with her, I played through an Aims VTG-120 "Personalized Guitar Sound System". Mine had 2 6550s, but I'm pretty sure this very amp (in the link below) used to be mine.
Image
I was living in Atlanta when I sold it, and I replaced one of the original Eminence (silver dust cap, alnico) speakers with a Jensen I pulled out of a Behringer GM110.

I actually thought that would work well for bass (through the right cab), but it was much mushier than I expected...at the time anyway. I don't see why it couldn't been tuned up (or something) to be better for bass.

I totally expect an old tube amp to require care and feeding (and nonzero risk of hernia), but I'm hoping the Danelectro isn't an amp for which the output transformer would need to be considered a consumable part!!

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Re: Gigantic Tube Amps for Bass

Post by rumfoord » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:48 am

So lately I've been reading everything I can find on this Peavey Penta amp, since their production was so recent but dropped off so fast. They announced them at NAMM in 2005 with a street price of $1200, and I think just three or four years later they were blowing them out for $499 (maybe $399!). For a while, there was one guy that had a side business modding them. But the few posts on them have this story arc:
"Has anybody tried one!"
"I did, it seems fine."
"I have one. I love it soo much. I have no more to say."
"I tried one in the store. Four of the channels are good. The mudflap girl channel doesn't sound like the XXX (which also wisely and elegantly incorporates mudflap girls as design elements), it sounds like bees."

Other than that, people mention that 140w is rather loud for home use (lol: understatement). Most posts diverge from there into George Lynch and Lynard Skynyrd.

Actually, I'm prone to hyperbole, but I don't mean that last bit as a metaphor for discussions on the seymour duncan forum or anything. The rumor is that this amp originally begun development as a George Lynch signature amp. Then marketed as the Penta. Then they made announcements that there would be a Gary (Lynyrd Skynyrd) Rossington signature Penta (in burgundy instead of green tolex). I thiiink they sold those for real for a while (easier to find press releases though). I'm not positive if the Rossington signature contains the same exact circuit as the Penta or if it's modified at all. It's called the Gary Rossington signature Penta, though.

Anyway, the Penta has a 5-position switch for different voicings (footswichable between any two). The voicings are only labeled with icons: typically called, tree, star, bull, cactus, mudflap girl. Cool.

So this is where I've been doing some holiday Da Vinci decoding: One of the reviews (I can't remember now..at least this one) says:
Star (clue: actually a six-pointed badge of the type worn by US marshals)
Okay. Seriously? Oh, kay.

There are some early photos with differing placement of the icons, and an early review with different descriptions of which icon is the clean one. But still, I'm kind of thinking that if the star icon carries a remnant of an intention for this channel to be Marshall-inspired...the other icons could carry similar remnants. I'm just asking questions here.

Word is that
  • Star is plexi-ish
  • Tree is fat and clean.
  • Bull sounds like a hot-rodded Marshall.
  • Cactus sounds looser with more gain.
  • and Mudflap girl sounds like bees.
So this is what I'm thinking:
The Peavey Butcher was a hot-rodded Marshall. Is that why it's a bull? This is the company that made an amp named after the code for involuntary psychiatric hold based on a risk of danger to oneself or others. I didn't really realize this before, but I think it's the same amp designer. James Brown says on his Amptweaker "About" page that he was hired at Peavey in 1986 and worked there for 18 years. He designed the VTM and Butcher as hot-rodded Marshalls (as well as the 5150 with Eddie Van Halen, and a bunch of other famous Peaveys). He says he left in 2004, so I wonder how involved he was with the Penta (which was announced at Winter NAMM 2005), but still.

What if the Mudflap / Trucker girl is a metal channel that's based on the Peavey Bandit because of the trucker movie Smokey and the Bandit. (Or an HM-2 through a Peavey Bandit? black metal tones?) Has to be. ::)

There is a cactus called the Mesa Verde cactus. Eh?! Right!?!!

Tree was the hardest. What are some clean amps that could be related to a tree?? I wondered if the shape of the tree is significant. Could it be an oak tree? oak whiskey barrels? That sounds southern rock. Where does mace, the spice, come from? Turns out, mace is the outer skin of a nutmeg kernel. And nutmeg comes from a tree...that looks exactly like...a regular ol' tree—which is what that icon looks like!

I cracked the c0d3!!!1!
  • Tree = Peavey Mace
  • Star = Marshall Plexi
  • Bull = Peavey Butcher
  • Cactus = Mesa
  • Mudflap girl = Peavey Bandit + Boss HM-2 (+ bees)
Anyway, this amp should arrive later this week, so I'm ready to confirmation bias the sh*t out of it. :ph34r:

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Re: Gigantic Tube Amps for Bass

Post by 46346 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:24 am

i'm a total amp nut, but no way i made it through all them posts...

shoot me a PM if you're bailing on the DS!

amps i still maintain that you might also like for that sound:

Silvertone 1483 bass head (Dano built!)
Airline/Valco blackface with panel lights - 4x6L6 with dual output like you mentioned
and yes, the Music Man HD's - mine runs 4xEL34

i've had to replace the output trannies on Dano and SIlvertone amps a couple of times. they were probably under-engineered, not sustainable for full output over the long haul, but that's what gives them that dangerous sound! it's not too hard to replace with a similar trans.
although on my 1483 i wanted an exact fitting replacement in the factory holes, and that took a few months of watching ebay, etc. the part was $18.

do us all a favor and have a decent tech get that Dano back on the road!
Dream Apes, ACME, Malcolm Mooney, Cat Museum, Cooling Time

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