Amp upgrade: Need some wisdom!

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Re: Amp upgrade: Need some wisdom!

Post by øøøøøøø » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:53 pm

I'll add to the consensus: Princeton Reverb is what you want.

If a used reissue (at about $800 or sometimes less) is too much for you at the moment, it's possible you can scour ebay for someone else's kit build that looks neatly-assembled. This is riskier, but subject to be far cheaper.

But really, you might just want to look around for a used PRRI. It just seems like exactly what you want.

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Re: Amp upgrade: Need some wisdom!

Post by Fuzzbuzz » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:04 pm

on second thought, really clean guitar would be more likely with a Roland JC120 or even a higher wattage peavey combo. Either should be something you could score for under $500 used.

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Re: Amp upgrade: Need some wisdom!

Post by NateD81 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:21 pm

Hi all!

Thank you all for the advice -- seriously, you all gave me a lot to chew on! I've heard so many good things about the PRRI already, you all got me leaning in that direction. Defintely out of the budget right now but I'm at the point in my life where I just want a nice thing that I'll enjoy and not feel like I need to upgrade 6 months down the road so it sounds like it is worth saving for. I'll be doing research, but when you guys recommend the PRRI, is there a consensus regarding the '65 blackface or the '68 silverface? I live in the Los Angeles area so there is always a huge market of used amps which is the route I'd most likely take since it can save me a few bucks, and I'm willing to scour the webs until the right thing comes along.

Thank you again, everyone! I've been playing awhile but I've always gone with the cheapest tube amp I can find and I feel like that's been the missing part of the equation for me and I feel a bit overwhelmed with the huge selection of Fender reissue amps out there.

Side note: I see a lot of Deluxe Reverb RIs on the market out here -- any opinions on that guy? Is it going to be too loud? I can't picture ever playing anywhere outside of a garage so power is not something I'm needing.

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Re: Amp upgrade: Need some wisdom!

Post by NateD81 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:22 pm

Fuzzbuzz wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:04 pm
on second thought, really clean guitar would be more likely with a Roland JC120 or even a higher wattage peavey combo. Either should be something you could score for under $500 used.
Any experience with some of the smaller Rolands? The JC40 or the JC22? I've always been intrigued by those guys.

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Re: Amp upgrade: Need some wisdom!

Post by NateD81 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:47 pm

NateD81 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:21 pm
Hi all!

Thank you all for the advice -- seriously, you all gave me a lot to chew on! I've heard so many good things about the PRRI already, you all got me leaning in that direction. Defintely out of the budget right now but I'm at the point in my life where I just want a nice thing that I'll enjoy and not feel like I need to upgrade 6 months down the road so it sounds like it is worth saving for. I'll be doing research, but when you guys recommend the PRRI, is there a consensus regarding the '65 blackface or the '68 silverface? I live in the Los Angeles area so there is always a huge market of used amps which is the route I'd most likely take since it can save me a few bucks, and I'm willing to scour the webs until the right thing comes along.

Thank you again, everyone! I've been playing awhile but I've always gone with the cheapest tube amp I can find and I feel like that's been the missing part of the equation for me and I feel a bit overwhelmed with the huge selection of Fender reissue amps out there.

Side note: I see a lot of Deluxe Reverb RIs on the market out here -- any opinions on that guy? Is it going to be too loud? I can't picture ever playing anywhere outside of a garage so power is not something I'm needing.
Side note: Any good youtube videos of the PRRI where someone is not playing blues licks on a strat??!? :D

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Re: Amp upgrade: Need some wisdom!

Post by mackerelmint » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:38 pm

^^^

Pfffffff, if only.
This is an excellent rectangle

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Re: Amp upgrade: Need some wisdom!

Post by oid » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:38 pm

NateD81 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:22 pm
Any experience with some of the smaller Rolands? The JC40 or the JC22? I've always been intrigued by those guys.
I like them, but they are quite bright and I suspect I would find it quite hard to live with a JC and a guitar as bright as a JazzMaster, but some seem to like the combination. The 120 is the least bright of the bunch, and the best sounding of the bunch, big and loud, fun amps.
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Re: Amp upgrade: Need some wisdom!

Post by Fuzzbuzz » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:52 am

They come with treble potentiometers.

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Re: Amp upgrade: Need some wisdom!

Post by oid » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:01 am

And if tone controls were absolute we would not need all these different amps.

Edit: That was a tad terse of me and not very constructive.

If we have an amp with its tone controls centered around 82hz, it will likely be a dark sounding amp no matter what we do with the tone controls, if we shift that up to 820hz, it will likely be bright. The overall voicing of the rest of the amp and the speakers play a role as well, but the tone controls play a big part of it in most amps, this is what makes different amps sound different. We can try and work around such things with an EQ in front, and this can work very well for clean sounds, but when distortion sets in we have no control of the the tone if it beyond the amps controls unless we want to stick a second EQ pedal in the FX loop if the amp in question has one.

The amp really needs to be voiced in the general ballpark of the sounds you are going for or you have to accept the sounds you can get from the amp.
Last edited by oid on Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Amp upgrade: Need some wisdom!

Post by Fuzzbuzz » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:19 am

NateD81 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:22 pm
Fuzzbuzz wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:04 pm
on second thought, really clean guitar would be more likely with a Roland JC120 or even a higher wattage peavey combo. Either should be something you could score for under $500 used.
Any experience with some of the smaller Rolands? The JC40 or the JC22? I've always been intrigued by those guys.
The JC40 would give you those cleans as well. I’m not sure that would be an upgrade however? Might be closer to a lateral switch from your XD. I have never played a JC22.

I’m surprised by people recommending the PRRI to be honest. Not because it’s a terrible amp, on the contrary. It’s a great little amp! I too own a ‘65 Reissue and I love it, but it’s not a good amp for “clean” guitar. It breaks up at volume 3! They also don’t fit within your stated budget. It sounds like you need something that is going to offer a lot of headroom, so if any of the Princeton Reverbs would fit that scenario you’d want the version they released with a 12” speaker and/or swap the speaker for a higher wattage speaker to give you the headroom. Just my opinion from experience.

The Deluxe Reverb would give you that extra headroom for sure. Especially if you’re not pushing the volume!
Last edited by Fuzzbuzz on Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:35 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Amp upgrade: Need some wisdom!

Post by Fuzzbuzz » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:22 am

oid wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:01 am
And if tone controls were absolute we would not need all these different amps.
That’s what I tell my wife whenever she notices a new amp or guitar. Works, every.time.

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Re: Amp upgrade: Need some wisdom!

Post by Fuzzbuzz » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:54 am

oid wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:01 am
And if tone controls were absolute we would not need all these different amps.

Edit: That was a tad terse of me and not very constructive.

If we have an amp with its tone controls centered around 82hz, it will likely be a dark sounding amp no matter what we do with the tone controls, if we shift that up to 820hz, it will likely be bright. The overall voicing of the rest of the amp and the speakers play a role as well, but the tone controls play a big part of it in most amps, this is what makes different amps sound different. We can try and work around such things with an EQ in front, and this can work very well for clean sounds, but when distortion sets in we have no control of the the tone if it beyond the amps controls unless we want to stick a second EQ pedal in the FX loop if the amp in question has one.

The amp really needs to be voiced in the general ballpark of the sounds you are going for or you have to accept the sounds you can get from the amp.
I actually really enjoyed that comment! Haha.

The OP specifically stated really clean guitar sounds were the desired effect. I don’t disagree that different amps have different voicings. But I have observed in a
Lot of posts on this forum, that it seems guitar players feel uncomfortable turning knobs down to 1 and 2 to get a desired sound. It’s almost as if the thinking is that the knobs should never go below 5. I have an original ‘67 BF Super Reverb that depending on the guitar I’m using the tone and bass will range between 2 and 8! Everything gets adjusted when I switch from a Jazzmaster to an SG for example.

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Re: Amp upgrade: Need some wisdom!

Post by marqueemoon » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:30 am

Fuzzbuzz wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:19 am
NateD81 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:22 pm
Fuzzbuzz wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:04 pm
on second thought, really clean guitar would be more likely with a Roland JC120 or even a higher wattage peavey combo. Either should be something you could score for under $500 used.
Any experience with some of the smaller Rolands? The JC40 or the JC22? I've always been intrigued by those guys.
The JC40 would give you those cleans as well. I’m not sure that would be an upgrade however? Might be closer to a lateral switch from your XD. I have never played a JC22.

I’m surprised by people recommending the PRRI to be honest. Not because it’s a terrible amp, on the contrary. It’s a great little amp! I too own a ‘65 Reissue and I love it, but it’s not a good amp for “clean” guitar. It breaks up at volume 3! They also don’t fit within your stated budget. It sounds like you need something that is going to offer a lot of headroom, so if any of the Princeton Reverbs would fit that scenario you’d want the version they released with a 12” speaker and/or swap the speaker for a higher wattage speaker to give you the headroom. Just my opinion from experience.

The Deluxe Reverb would give you that extra headroom for sure. Especially if you’re not pushing the volume!
The OP said bedroom-type volumes are going to be typical, so I don’t think the early breakup factors in that much. Used Princeton Reverb reissues are <$800 all day long. I agree that the 10” speaker can be less than ideal in some situations, but those tend to involve higher volume.

I played a Quilter 101 the other day and was pretty impressed with its clean capabilities and eq. The reverb was... not good though, and while I personally prefer head/cab setups it’s not as cost effective as a combo, and the thing that tends to bug me about combos (rattle) is really only an issue at higher volumes.

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Re: Amp upgrade: Need some wisdom!

Post by rumfoord » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:20 am

So PRRI's are super great. And my earlier post was not even a position as much as just how my experience happened to work out. But I just looked at the LA craigslist, and I'm just going to go ALL IN on the argument that there are better options.

caveat: I haven't played PRRIs more than just at big box guitar stores (which I probably only played with a strat). I loved it, but I also think the bassbreaker and pro jr are also great choices that I'd recommend over the hot rod series (which I also like fine!). Maybe more time with a PRRI would reveal my ignorance.

But spending only a couple minutes searching "tube" on the LA craigslist I found a whole long list of amps I'd personally rather buy that are either cooler, cheaper, or both. Also, I rarely weigh in on the MIA debates, but personally I think (bracketed for clarity?? ha)
[buying a MIA amp or guitar from a corporation that can only stay afloat through questionable ethics in their overseas lower-tier models]
is less of an important distinction than
[buying any amp or guitar used and budgeting a little extra money for repair that sustains your local community through specialized technicians].
Part of the reason the cost of a used PRRI for $650 is to reimburse the original buyer who paid Fender $1000 for a brand new amp made out of brand new pieces. The money is funneled into the corporation before it goes anywhere else. If you buy a $450 used amp and wind up spending $100 in repairs. Having an amp technician in your area is no small privilege, so it's good anyway to help keep those people afloat instead of the big corporations with the big bonuses for investors. You also may wind up with something more unique, possibly better sounding, and pay less for it.

Anyway, anyway. Everyone should weigh these options for themselves. A PRRI could still totally be what's right for you. I don't feel quite that ranty about it, except THERE. THAT'S THE ARGUEMNT, ANYWAY.

And here's what I'd personally probably consider before along with PRRI. Don't forget that you can always take a guitar to test it! Some of these are even PR clones, which seems promising.


https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/m ... 10990.html
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/m ... 76616.html
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/m ... 98687.html
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/m ... 16701.html
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/m ... 47071.html
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/m ... 66589.html
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/m ... 96075.html
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/m ... 01153.html
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/m ... 27259.html
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/m ... 96412.html
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/m ... 02540.html

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Re: Amp upgrade: Need some wisdom!

Post by Embenny » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:34 am

I'll make my usual suggestion, which goes a bit against the grain:

Go digital.

You could get a used Pod X3 Live or similar modeler and, if you don't have a PA, a cheap used PA or keyboard amp.

It's been 5 years since I've owned a tube amp. I used to be a tube sycophant. My Kemper and now Fractal AX8 have divorced me of that attitude.

The biggest advantage is divorcing volume from tone. Do you want to jam with an inspiring tone through headphones or at not-baby-waking volumes? Not everyone can get tubes cooking all the time. Even a "low power" tube amp like a Princeton sounds positively anemic at 50 dB. I don't think I've heard a great tone from a tube amp at less than 80 dB, which isn't dramatic, but isn't an all-situation volume level.

Modelers have come a long way. Far enough that a huge proportion of live acts and recordings have them running for at least part of the tones used.

It also spoils you with the available options. I set up patches with mild tweaks optimized for my bridge pickup vs my neck pickup, or for switching between guitars. No more spending $80 a pop switching pups looking for that perfect balance of clean vs dirty tones on the neck vs the bridge with the same amp and pedal settings - just add that smidge of presence that the neck pickup loves, and give that bridge pickup patch the extra .5 on the gain and mids knobs.
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