NAD: Yo dawg, I heard I like Jets...

Make it loud here.
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Sid Nitzerglobin
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NAD: Yo dawg, I heard I like Jets...

Post by Sid Nitzerglobin » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:42 am

... so I got me a Jet so i can play my Jets through a Jet... :D

Been thinking on the consolidation tip for the ever accumulating stacks of amps I wind up attracting and came to the conclusion that in the clean-ish American sounding category I really can't justify having more than an 18-22 ish watt combo for playing w/ drummers and a ~5-10 watt for home/low key jams/recording/etc.

Sounds counter-intuitive/productive, but the minty '74 Champ strolling into the shop over this past weekend had triggered a lot of activity in my brain related to this initiative and I'd been getting pretty close to coming to the conclusion that I would end up ordering either an Allen Chihuahua or a Swart Atomic Jr or STR Tremolo as the smaller amp, but wound up hitting up the local big boxes 3 times this week at lunch hoping that something might pop up before I resorted to that. Feeling a little embarrassed about showing up for the 3rd time at the localest GC, I almost didn't go in yesterday, but fought through it. Damn, I'm pretty glad I did as this guy had showed up since my last visit (pardon the crappy cellphone pics):
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Being a fan of the 60s Ampegs I've been on the look out for any Jets that have happened across my path but the ones I've encountered were either in pretty sketchy shape electronically, or the cabs were literally falling apart, and/or they wanted way more for them than I wanted to pay. This one turns out to have been one of my acquaintances who works there which explains why it seems to be in great and mostly all original shape electronically and structurally if a bit rough on the cosmetics...

If my recollection of Ampeg dating methodology serves me I believe it's a '63 J-12-D and it seems fairly unmolested. It's got some old stock 6BK11s, original speaker and trannys, and the only things changed up were the addition of a three prong cord (which I'm never going to complain about), it's had its electrolytics replaced, and had the original 7591s and rectifier replaced w/ JJs when the previous owner got it ~ 5 years ago.
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Most importantly, out of the several 60s Jets I've checked out over the years, it seemed like the best sounding and least noisy w/ a fully functional and great sounding trem. Sounds great turned down to low talking volumes and spits some great, beefy crunch when dimed w/ very nice dynamics all the way through the range. All of that and it's the cheapest one I've run into by $50 :w00t:

Spent last night into the wee hours of the morning running it through its paces w/ a wide variety of guitars and so far it seems like a certain keeper. The cleans are just beautiful, trem is great, and it seems like it's taking dirt really well but I think the speaker is a little tired as it's got some of the same lazy response as the speaker in the afforementioned Champ had when it's really being pushed, whether from dirt pedal or under its own power. It's got a very raw, tweedy, semi-grindy breakup character when pushed hard that I think will be great for me and it gets pretty darn loud cranked up. I think it may even wind up coffee house giggable w/ a newer fairly high sensitivity speaker. One of the advantages of being a 12" combo w/ 8 ohm OT is that I've already got quite a few other options on hand. I'm thinking I'll borrow the Alnico Gold out of the GVT112 cab and see what it and maybe the Cannabis Rex sound like in there. I think I've still got a set of New Sensor Tung Sol 7591s sitting around somewhere that I might try in there too if I can dig them up (IIRC they're supposed to a bit closer to actual 7591s in architecture than the JJs).

Anyway, thanks for reading! I'll leave you w/ this shot of a couple of my Jets and my Jet ;)
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Re: NAD: Yo dawg, I heard I like Jets...

Post by Larsongs » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:10 pm

Me too! I just got a Gretsch G-6128T-GH George Harrison Duo Jet.. What an Awesome Guitar!!!! I love those Dyna Sonic Pickups!!

Lars

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Re: NAD: Yo dawg, I heard I like Jets...

Post by garyfanclub » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:00 pm

Awesome, I love my 65 Reverberocket 2! Using a Cannabis Rex in it, and so far so good. If anything it might be a little /too/ loud.

The only problem with old Ampegs is that once you buy one, they seem to start piling up. My favorite so far is the GV22, which is basically an Ampeg take on the Pro Reverb.

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Re: NAD: Yo dawg, I heard I like Jets...

Post by Sid Nitzerglobin » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:02 pm

I dug up the Tung Sol 7591As last night and swapped back and forth between them and the JJs in the Jet a few times and was a bit surprised at the degree of difference I was hearing. I wound up having a pretty distinct preference for the Tung Sols: they seem a bit brighter and more detailed in the attack and also (somewhat disappointingly for me) were producing noticeably higher output.

I took it into the shop today and got everything torn down and cleaned up a bit.
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Thankfully it does look like they stayed pretty conservative w/ the servicing, I figured I saw 6 caps replaced and the 3 way power switch added w/ everything else inside the chassis striking me as original:
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I was happy to find the schematic fairly intact too:
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It's not a super deep cab, so the chassis had to come out to do the speaker swap, which was really for the best as it needed a good vacuuming in there.

The dustcap on the original C12R had deteriorated away pretty significantly and the outside folds looks like I'd probably wind up blowing it out in fairly short order so I felt a little bit more justified in the speaker swap.
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Given how shallow the cab is and the placement of the power tubes, I'm thinking the G12 Gold would definitely not fit so I mounted the Cannabis Rex up. That wind ups a pretty darn tight fit, but I think I'd feel comfortable hauling it around frequently w/ it in there. I was having a hard time getting pic of the tube clearance, but I'd say there's ~3/8-7/16" between the base of the tubes and the drivers and there's still ~ 1/8" of compression on the rubber gasket against the chassis:
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I haven't given it a proper test drive to form any decisive opinions on the sound yet, but I will say that the weight difference from the stock speaker is a little much and I think the 101.8db sensitivity is going to give me more volume than I want out of it. It seems a lot more solid and focused sounding when driven and displayed the same kind of smoky quality I'd associated it w/ in the other combos I've tried it in.

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Re: NAD: Yo dawg, I heard I like Jets...

Post by Sid Nitzerglobin » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:06 pm

Larsongs wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:10 pm
Me too! I just got a Gretsch G-6128T-GH George Harrison Duo Jet.. What an Awesome Guitar!!!! I love those Dyna Sonic Pickups!!

Lars
Awesome, congrats man! Next to Mustang bodied guitars I've had the most Jets, they're just great IMO. I've yet to own any true DynaJets, but I really like the ones I've tried and my Jet Special slab w/ DeArmonds.
Last edited by Sid Nitzerglobin on Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NAD: Yo dawg, I heard I like Jets...

Post by Sid Nitzerglobin » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:11 pm

garyfanclub wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:00 pm
Awesome, I love my 65 Reverberocket 2! Using a Cannabis Rex in it, and so far so good. If anything it might be a little /too/ loud.

The only problem with old Ampegs is that once you buy one, they seem to start piling up. My favorite so far is the GV22, which is basically an Ampeg take on the Pro Reverb.
I hear you there. I've had a '67 Gemini VI for several years and have probably put in ~1000 miles worth of road tripping to try out Reverberockets, seems like it'd be just about perfect for me for the louder American amp from the ones I've played if I could ever find a good example at a price I'm willing to pay. I've had the Gemini for sale down at the shop for a bit to help me feel ok about paying a significant premium for a good R12R but I think it'd still be a sad day if it ever moved on to a new owner.

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Re: NAD: Yo dawg, I heard I like Jets...

Post by garyfanclub » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:44 pm

Sid Nitzerglobin wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:11 pm
garyfanclub wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:00 pm
Awesome, I love my 65 Reverberocket 2! Using a Cannabis Rex in it, and so far so good. If anything it might be a little /too/ loud.

The only problem with old Ampegs is that once you buy one, they seem to start piling up. My favorite so far is the GV22, which is basically an Ampeg take on the Pro Reverb.
I hear you there. I've had a '67 Gemini VI for several years and have probably put in ~1000 miles worth of road tripping to try out Reverberockets, seems like it'd be just about perfect for me for the louder American amp from the ones I've played if I could ever find a good example at a price I'm willing to pay. I've had the Gemini for sale down at the shop for a bit to help me feel ok about paying a significant premium for a good R12R but I think it'd still be a sad day if it ever moved on to a new owner.
Are you in the Northeast? They’re pretty common around here in the 350-450 range. If you’re ever in Maryland, go check out Atomic Music. Lots of old Ampegs in there, and they’re usually willing to wheel and deal. I paid about 400 for mine there, NOS tubes to boot. Definitely needs a recap, but it’s a nice bedroom amp.

I see you’ve run into the same issue with the CR speaker - it’s just a little too much for the volumes I’m using the amp for too. I’d like to try a lower efficiency Weber at some point, but it’s not up there on the list of priorities.

That said, the old glass in those amps is pretty amazing - the 7591 is a hell of an output tube, and there’s no beating the old 12AX7s. Honestly, I’d wager the tubes are worth more than what I paid for the amp.

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Re: NAD: Yo dawg, I heard I like Jets...

Post by garyfanclub » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:46 pm

And here’s a photo for good measure... 65 RR and my 66 Guild T50 strung up with flats. Super mellow bedroom setup.

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Re: NAD: Yo dawg, I heard I like Jets...

Post by Sid Nitzerglobin » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:15 pm

Nice man, love it! That looks like it's in great shape. Damn nice Guild too! I've loved my late '90s Starfire II and the Newark St. Aristocrat through either the Gemini or the Jet.

I'm in SW Ohio and my experience over the past several years is that it's a bad market for the '60s Ampegs locally. Most of what I've seen in a 100 mile radius or so seemed either fairly flaky electronically or structurally, and $550-750 for the Reverberockets. I've kinda been staying away from actively looking for them for the past year or so until the Gemini sells.

I was thinking the same thing about the 6BK11s in the Jet probably being worth close to what I paid for the amp. Even the 6C10s seem like they're $70+ a pop...

After a fair bit of noodling around w/ different guitars tonight , I'm thinking maybe this isn't the amp for the CRex either. Seems to feel progressively more dead, diffused, sluggish, and dark the further up the dirt scale you go. It's probably not broken in yet, but as the 4th combo I've tried this speaker in I dunno if I'll have the patience to ever get it there (maybe if I put it in a closed cab and/or lock it in a closet playing Barney through it?). I think it would probably work really great as a traditional jazz amp w/ the CRex but I think I'm gonna see about getting a Weber Signature Ceramic as it seems like the most direct C12R replacement they do (and it's cheap and should fit well too ;) ) If I knew of anyone who did good recones I'd probably try that route instead.

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Re: NAD: Yo dawg, I heard I like Jets...

Post by Sid Nitzerglobin » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:14 pm

Spent a good bit of the day doing a 3 way speaker swap: grabbed the Weber Signature Alnico out of the VibroRic and installed it in the Allen 1x12, grabbed the Cannabis Rex out of the Jet and installed it in the VibroRic, and finally I put the Red, White & Blues from the Allen cab into the Jet.
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After about 30 minutes through each in their new homes I think it's a nice improvement for each to my ears. I'm still not super jazzed on the Red, White, & Blues (haven't been a big fan of the speaker so far in general though when hooked up to any of the lower watt American amps I've tried it w/) but I think it's a better match for the Jet than the CRex was for me. It seems to have given back a good bit of the volume increase from the stock speaker as well, which is a good thing for me w/ this amp ;)

I'm actually pretty damn happy w/ what the CRex does for the VibroRic, which has always had a tendency to get a bit ice picky if I wasn't careful and a bit thin w/ the Weber in it. The better taper on the volume and gain control on the amp seems like it should work better for letting the speaker do dual duty for bedroom noodling/practice to lower volume jam volumes too.

The Weber seems to get along great so far w/ the Allen 1x12 driven by the AST Pro (gonna go hook it up to the Z28 next).

I'm gonna order up some female 1/4" jacks so I can splice them onto the speaker out leads for the Jet so I can easily swap output to the Allen cab. I think I will go ahead and order a Weber Signature Ceramic for the combo as well. I'm thinking I wouldn't mind hearing what a Greenback sounds like in there either, but I've only got them in 16 ohm...

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Re: NAD: Yo dawg, I heard I like Jets...

Post by Sid Nitzerglobin » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:32 am

I managed to work a trade w/ one of my fellow speaker hoarders of a Heritage G12H 75Hz 16ohm and a V30 I haven't been using for a Heritage G12M 8 ohm and a G12 Neo Creamback (which so far seems to be getting along well as can be replacing the Sidewinder my '84 4210 Anniversary came to me w/), both basically new.

Last night I clipped the terminal ends off of the speaker out leads on the Jet and hooked up a Switchcraft 1/4" female jack and made myself a couple of speaker dongles:
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After that I dropped in the G12M and initial impressions are pretty darn good, a bit more biased towards crunch than the cleans, but really a pretty good match for the amp all told IMO. Hooking it up through the Brake Lite w/ the Brain and Prestige pushing the pre a bit the crunch really is pretty unique and cool sounding ;D
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I think I will try the Weber 10A125-O 20W on a rebaffler I wound up ordering on Sunday night once they arrive as I'm thinking the primary limitation here is probably the cab geometry/volume making all but the weakest of 12"s go boxy/underpowered sounding. I think I'll enjoy this Greenback in the meantime regardless :)

For cleans to "cleans... ?" to jangly crunch, I'm not sure I could do much better than the Allen 1x12 w/ the Alnico Signature. Just a great super detailed, 3D sounding tone w/ lots of chime and a beautiful low end. Seems to be a really great sounding cab w/ any of the American voiced amps so far. I'm super tempted to try to run the Jet w/ the combo speaker and the Allen cab, but can't decide what my likelihood of blowing some thing up w/ the 4 ohm load would be yet...

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