TV front Deluxe from 1950 - loss of sustain

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Guitarman555
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TV front Deluxe from 1950 - loss of sustain

Post by Guitarman555 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:20 pm

Hi everybody,

I have bought TV front Deluxe. Sounds cool, is very loud, distorts almost at starting volumes, as it is expected from those early tweed Fenders. Problem is that after 20 minutes it starts to lose sustain! Every note just dies very quickly. This appears 20 minutes after I turn the amp on and when it gets warm. What can be the problem? Tubes, or old caps (some caps are original, some are changed)

Thanks a lot!

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Embenny
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Re: TV front Deluxe from 1950 - loss of sustain

Post by Embenny » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:27 pm

Guitarman555 wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:20 pm
Hi everybody,

I have bought TV front Deluxe. Sounds cool, is very loud, distorts almost at starting volumes, as it is expected from those early tweed Fenders. Problem is that after 20 minutes it starts to lose sustain! Every note just dies very quickly. This appears 20 minutes after I turn the amp on and when it gets warm. What can be the problem? Tubes, or old caps (some caps are original, some are changed)

Thanks a lot!
Get thee to a tech!

Seriously, I wouldn't even test a 68 year-old amp with 68 year-old caps beyond checking if it turns on. Is it still 2-prong? I wouldn't chance playing through it until it got a thorough checkup.

But, to answer your question, yes - tubes and caps could both cause this, and they are both easily checked out by someone with the right equipment and knowledge.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

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Re: TV front Deluxe from 1950 - loss of sustain

Post by Guitarman555 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:51 pm

Yes it is still 2 prong, but I don t think I shoud change it to 3 prong. I am also thinking that maybe it is only an old resistor.. Which should be easy to change..

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Re: TV front Deluxe from 1950 - loss of sustain

Post by Jaguar018 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:51 am

Guitarman555 wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:51 pm
Yes it is still 2 prong, but I don t think I shoud change it to 3 prong. I am also thinking that maybe it is only an old resistor.. Which should be easy to change..
Why don't you want to change it to three prong?

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Re: TV front Deluxe from 1950 - loss of sustain

Post by Guitarman555 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:17 pm

Jaguar018 wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:51 am
Guitarman555 wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:51 pm
Yes it is still 2 prong, but I don t think I shoud change it to 3 prong. I am also thinking that maybe it is only an old resistor.. Which should be easy to change..
Why don't you want to change it to three prong?
Well, I am not sure where I would connect the third prong in the amp..

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Re: TV front Deluxe from 1950 - loss of sustain

Post by Guitarman555 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:18 pm

Anybody any advice on the loss of sustain problem? I have an impression that it could be a tired resitor, when it heats up, it just changes its quality.. What do you think?

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Re: TV front Deluxe from 1950 - loss of sustain

Post by Embenny » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:48 pm

Guitarman555 wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:17 pm
Well, I am not sure where I would connect the third prong in the amp..
Here you go.
Guitarman555 wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:18 pm
Anybody any advice on the loss of sustain problem? I have an impression that it could be a tired resitor, when it heats up, it just changes its quality.. What do you think?
Truly, take it to a good tech. Diagnosing that kind of amp problem online is like diagnosing a medical condition online. It's just not going to work.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

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Re: TV front Deluxe from 1950 - loss of sustain

Post by Jaguar018 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:51 am

mbene085 wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:48 pm
Truly, take it to a good tech. Diagnosing that kind of amp problem online is like diagnosing a medical condition online. It's just not going to work.
Agree. Also, I think the amp has a gallbladder infection.

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Re: TV front Deluxe from 1950 - loss of sustain

Post by Embenny » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:01 am

Jaguar018 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:51 am
mbene085 wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:48 pm
Truly, take it to a good tech. Diagnosing that kind of amp problem online is like diagnosing a medical condition online. It's just not going to work.
Agree. Also, I think the amp has a gallbladder infection.
Still better than my impotent Bassman.

It works just fine at home, but whenever I try to play with it in front of anyone else - nothing.

I think it's just performance anxiety, but my bandmates want met to get it checked out...
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

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Re: TV front Deluxe from 1950 - loss of sustain

Post by Guitarman555 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:57 am

Thanks for jokes, guys. Surely I will take it to the doctor, but anyway, I would like to know your opinion, what it can be, if you have had the problem with the sustain, after the amp warms up (after 20 mins playing)

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Re: TV front Deluxe from 1950 - loss of sustain

Post by Embenny » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:32 am

Guitarman555 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:57 am
Thanks for jokes, guys. Surely I will take it to the doctor, but anyway, I would like to know your opinion, what it can be, if you have had the problem with the sustain, after the amp warms up (after 20 mins playing)
Joking aside, my best bets are tubes or electrolytic caps. I've seen all sorts of weird symptoms from old electrolytics, and by old, I mean ones that were 30 years younger than the ones in your amp.

Tubes are also an easy thing to test.

After those two, you're into weirder, less common issues.
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Re: TV front Deluxe from 1950 - loss of sustain

Post by Guitarman555 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:43 am

mbene085 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:32 am
Guitarman555 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:57 am
Thanks for jokes, guys. Surely I will take it to the doctor, but anyway, I would like to know your opinion, what it can be, if you have had the problem with the sustain, after the amp warms up (after 20 mins playing)
Joking aside, my best bets are tubes or electrolytic caps. I've seen all sorts of weird symptoms from old electrolytics, and by old, I mean ones that were 30 years younger than the ones in your amp.

Tubes are also an easy thing to test.

After those two, you're into weirder, less common issues.
Thanks a lot for quick answer, ok I will test tubes first, unfortunately I have in disposal only the rectifier 5Y3GT, two 6v6 tubex but NOT AVAILABLE the preamp tubes which are 6SC7 tubes. Do you know if they are possible to subsitute by Ax7?

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Re: TV front Deluxe from 1950 - loss of sustain

Post by Embenny » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:51 am

I have been told it is possible with a socket change. 12AX7 are higher gain. I have heard that 12AY7's are closer to the original tone of your tubes.

There was a Groove Tubes product called the "substi-tube" that let you plug a 9-pin 12A_7 into an 8-pin 6SC7 socket, but all the vendors I checked online say it's out of stock. Not sure if it's still made? If it is, that would be a non-destructive way to try those tubes.

Of course, the simplest way to test a tube is with an actual tube tester - any amp tech should have one, and it should accommodate an octal tube no problem.
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Re: TV front Deluxe from 1950 - loss of sustain

Post by Guitarman555 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:55 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:51 am
I have been told it is possible with a socket change. 12AX7 are higher gain. I have heard that 12AY7's are closer to the original tone of your tubes.

There was a Groove Tubes product called the "substi-tube" that let you plug a 9-pin 12A_7 into an 8-pin 6SC7 socket, but all the vendors I checked online say it's out of stock. Not sure if it's still made? If it is, that would be a non-destructive way to try those tubes.

Of course, the simplest way to test a tube is with an actual tube tester - any amp tech should have one, and it should accommodate an octal tube no problem.
Many thanks for reply, first I will check the available amps and we will see. But something is telling me it won´t be amps, I think worn amps have different symptoms. Day after tomorrow I will get to the amp and switchthe amps. Will let you know.

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Re: TV front Deluxe from 1950 - loss of sustain

Post by Guitarman555 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:12 pm

Any other thoughts? Many thanks!

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