NAD - '68 Princeton NR

[raphaël]

Hey everyone,

I have a trade offer on my '67 Coronado fully loaded body.
Someone is offering me an all original 1968 Princeton non reverb.
I've always wanted a Princeton, especially a vintage one.
I think, I think, it's a good deal.
What do you guys think?
But I don't know anything about those. The one the guy is offering has a white "plastic snake" on the edges of the grill cloth...never noticed there was such amps.
The guy told me it was transitional, from the blackfaces to the silverfaces.
Do you have informations on those?

The only bummer is I'm a spring reverb sucker...and that one doesn't have reverb

Thank you and good day/night!!
raph

[Despot]

Those amps are referred to as 'drip edge' amps - they have silver face plates with an edging around the grill cloth.

I believe that internally they're the same as the black face amps - or possibly that there's a minor change (the change of the rectifier tube type). In any event these are very very good amps - though I'm not 100% sure that the early SF stuff won't be largely similar in the case of a non-reverb Princeton.

I have both a SF Princeton Reverb (1971) and a non-reverb (1973). Both sound great - but I actually prefer the Princeton non-reverb. It's got a little less gain as you turn up the volume and it stays cleaner - so it feels like it isn't as loud. However, it actually stays cleaner as you go up in volume than a PR so you end up having something that is quite useful if you want louder cleans and use a drive pedal to kick it in the guts when needed.

My 'rig' now (whatever that means for a home player like me) is effectively Princeton (either/or) + Klon + guitar. The non-reverb works better in that context for me, as I can get a louder clean sound and use the Klon to drive the amp. Sort of counter-intuitive when you start putting both amps side by side as the reverb Princeton sounds louder at 2 or 3 on volume ... but as you push it up it breaks up around 4 and from there it sort of hits a volume ceiling. The non-reverb Princeton will stay clean up until around 8 for me ... so you get loud (well by Princeton standards) but it stays mostly clean. Using the Klon seems to drive the amp into the territory that a reverb Princeton will get you to ... so it's the best of both worlds for me.

Value wise - a non-reverb true Silverface (i.e. not a transition/drip edge) will set you back around 1,000-1,200 depending on condition here in Ireland (ymmv of course). Drip edge amps tend to go for a little more as many people will say that they're the same as black face just with early silver face cosmetic changes. I'd say a drip edge would go for around 1,500-1,800 here - given that you'd pay around 2,000-2,500 for a BF Princeton depending on the condition.

A Coronado will shift for about 1,500 in Ireland - that's for a full guitar in decent condition. On that basis I'd say this guy's offer is about right for here - a drip edge for a loaded body sounds about right.

Things to be aware of - has the 'death cap' been removed? That, as the name might suggest, is a good thing - this is basically a really 'bound to fail' capacitor that sits between you and getting fried by mains electricity! It's a cheap fix if it hasn't been removed. What you want ideally is an earthed three prong plug and no death cap.

Also, original transformers? Original tubes are also nice - every time I've had an old Princeton I've always been lucky to get original glass in there, or at least NOS.

Finally - what speaker is in there? I forget when you had transitions, but I don't think you'll find a Jensen in a drip edge - but you will potentially find an Oxford. Oxford speakers are weird - conventional wisdom is that their 12 inch speakers are sort of meh. But the 10 inch speakers (as you get in Princetons) are kind of great. I can't link a photo of mine - but they usually come with a blue fender branded label with silver writing saying 'Special Design Speaker'.

Anyway - if it were me I'd go for it.

[raphaël]

^
Thanks, THAT was a real answer!!
And maybe also what I wanted to hear

The guy sent me some pics:




As you can see, the speaker is in fact not original, eventhough he told me it was.
I'm a bit scared about the whole amp now

What tubes would I have to expect for this amp, from this very year?
I'll ask him what the amp currently have in its guts.

Thanks for your help!!
This might be my first vintage amp, and possibly a good one...

[Larsongs]

^
Thanks, THAT was a real answer!!
And maybe also what I wanted to hear

The guy sent me some pics:




As you can see, the speaker is in fact not original, eventhough he told me it was.
I'm a bit scared about the whole amp now

What tubes would I have to expect for this amp, from this very year?
I'll ask him what the amp currently have in its guts.

Thanks for your help!!
This might be my first vintage amp, and possibly a good one...

I would love to have a Xlnt Condition Original Vintage BF or early Sf Princeton or DR. But every time I respond to the so called Xlnt Condition Originals they are neother. So I keep playing my Reissues... The Guitar & Amp Show guys I've run into & the Stores like GC are usually smoking crack on the prices for their so called Xlnt Originals....

I guess it just takes time & luck.....

[Despot]

I can't say for sure re: tubes that would have come stock - but I wouldn't worry so much about that as you can still get decent old stock 6V6 tubes from somewhere like watford valves in the UK. I have a couple of different pairs that I've been stocking up and swap around sometimes.

My Princeton Reverb is from '71 (so a little later) and appears to have been fitted with a mix of GE and Sylvania tubes (depending on whether they were pre-amp or power amp). But ... like I said ... don't sweat it.

I'm currently running a pair of Brimar 6V6s in my Princeton (older '50 stock iirc). These were originally military spec tubes and were recommended to me by someone on here I think - they're pretty sturdy beasts. I'm running a NOS Amperex rectifier tube and the preamp tubes are all old GE tubes.

That's a pretty nice drip edge - good condition too. The speaker being changed may not be the worst thing in the world - my non-reverb Princeton had an EV speaker in it and sounded great ... even though it was a far too heavy speaker for the amp. I replaced it with a Weber speaker and it sounded even better - and the amp was a lot lighter to port around too without the heavier than hell EV in there. You could easily swap out the speaker that's in there for a Weber (they make some good speaker replacements). Or if it sounds good ... forget about it.

As much as old Oxford speakers are great there were also other speaker manufacturers used in Princetons that were ... well, less great. The current speaker isn't awful by any stretch - and probably represented an improvement over whatever was in it. If it wasn't an Oxford. If someone ripped out a perfectly good Oxford to replace it with a Ragin Cajun they need to be sternly spoken to with electric jump cables.

[mgeek]

If someone ripped out a perfectly good Oxford to replace it with a Ragin Cajun they need to be sternly spoken to with electric jump cables.

Nothing constructive to say but I'd have to rip that speaker out and bin it for it's name alone! 'Ragin Cajun', 'Patriot Series', ugh!

[raphaël]

I accepted the trade offer...and after many days of waiting for the guy to ship the amp, I got it yesterday.

Oh my

THE AMP IS AWESOME!!!!

I know I'm veeery late to the party, this is my first vintage tube amp, my first vintage Fender amp and also my first Princeton, but this amp makes ALL my guitars sound like they are alive.
I mostly play with my fingers, it stays clean until 10!!! this is insane...well, not true with my Les Paul but this is ok, that guitar sounds heavenly in it.
The speaker sounds awesome too, but I won't be able to compare it with anything else sooo...
The tubes are all replacements, AFAIK...this is a bummer, he told me they were originals...I don't really care afterall, I'll find other later.
There is a big interference too, when I'm playing...mostly on the neck pickup with bassy lines.
I think something is disturbing the vibrations, I'll take care of it later.

Because for now, I'm only enjoying playing through that thing of beauty.
I don't know why my efforts weren't pointed on vintage Fender amps before, but I know now they are.
This is a whole new world.
I never had the opportunity to find/buy/trade a vintage F-amp before, I'm thankfull I have one now.
Plus the Princeton was an obsession for me, and knowing that I won't miss the Coronado, I couldn't be happier.

I know all of this sounds naive, ingenuous and 50 years late but wow...I'm amazed.
I feel good, I mean I really FEEL the good when I play through it...and even when I just look at it

Anyway,
YEEEAHH!!!!!!


ps : an other "bummer", my AC15 sounds meh now

[Singlebladepickup]

Congrats. Sincerely doubt you will ever regret that trade or get sick of that amp.

[wproffitt]

Congrats! I’m glad you like it so much! I wouldn’t be without my Princeton for the world. It does make my guitars sound “Alive” in a way that most amps don’t. Enjoy it!

[elektrovac]

Congrats on your new amp. I used to own one, and it's a very nice, clean little amp!

I just wanted to chip in on the reason the non-reverb BF/SF Princeton seems less loud than the PR. It's because the reverb recovery tube also serves as an extra gain stage in the PR. 12AX7s are 'dual' tubes, and only one half is used for the reverb. The other serves as a gain stage, not present in the non-reverb circuit.

The 'brown' non-reverb Princeton (6G2) is much different, and it's louder than the BF/SF version because it does not have the bass/mid(non-adjustable)/treble tone-stack which sends a lot of signal to ground.

[HH1978]

So glad you like it! BF and SF amp are the ticket! Never had a Princeton, so I'm jealous !

[PJazzmaster]

Wow! That was a good trade! Nice Amp!

[Ursa Minor]

Welcome to the Princeton club! I'll profess my love in a later post when i have more time, but for now I have to say these are hands down one of the best amps ever. They have a way of making all my guitars sound so good.

Now all you need is a Princeton Reverb to go with it.

[raphaël]

I'm currently selling 4 guitars locally, in order to raise funds for a vintage Princeton Reverb
This is the new obsession, pairing the NR with another one with reverb and breakup.

This is funny how OSG is leading my way through gear happiness, I know I wouldn't be where I am right now without this forum