Princeton Reverb quandary

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Stosh221
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Re: Princeton Reverb quandary

Post by Stosh221 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:50 am

jdr1014 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:32 am
Wow - PRRI is $1500 + in Canada??!! I wouldn't be inclined to pay that either! OP is in NY and one can get a brand new one with a 5 year warranty shipped to his door for about $850. Add $50 to $75 for bias check....or better yet, buy a bias probe and learn to do it. What I have been seeing around here is about $1200+ for decent SFPRs and upwards of $2000 for BFPRs. (Not that many, either, unfortunately.) Those prices are about what Ebay shows too. Add $200 or so for service, etc.

As with any purchase, do the research and spend wisely. Good PR's of any flavor in good operating condition are wonderful amps. :)
Thanks for all the good information/advice.

For sure I'd consider an old SF if they weren't as rare as hen's teeth around here. For whatever reason SFDRs are relatively obtainable, but I don't really need the second channel, and the sound is definitely different than the PR. Sometimes I wonder if I should go for an old silver face Deluxe, snip the bright cap, and be done with it.

I also like the DIY serviceability of the older amps. I did a recap on my old Super 60 (learned from YouTube videos how not to zap myself and yank the old capacitors), but getting at 'em on a tightly packed circuit board was no fun. Haven't ever done my own re-bias, but think I'd be up for it on an older amp where the components are more easily accessible.

Decisions decisions.

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Re: Princeton Reverb quandary

Post by Stosh221 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:04 am

jdr1014 wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:31 pm


Well.............I have several wonderful SF and BF Fenders. I also have had a DRRI to compare with my mint SFDR.........and have a PRRI too. While I am very fond of the "real" vintage amps, I ended up buying the 65PRRI to scratch my PR "itch" and have been extremely pleased with it. It received a full compliment of my favorite NOS tubes and has been properly biased. Fender RI amps are notorious for being biased very cold to preserve their current production tubes, resulting in a much more sterile tone. Still has the stock Jensen reissue speaker but it is well broken in now. It is a "reissue" but it is an excellent sounding PR. Same experience with the DRRI I had (since given to my grandson) with the same type of setup. I had a TRRI awhile back that sounded darn good too once it was dialed in the same way. The point is that Fender Reissue amps are fine amps and the primary reasons they don't sound as good as some originals is because of cold bias and stiff new speakers. Better tubes do help too.

Thanks for this perspective! I go back and forth on the reissue vs. vintage options. One concern I have about vintage is that I'd likely have to purchase sight unseen (or unheard) through Reverb or Ebay, since they're so hard to come by in my neck of the woods. I don't have a huge knowledge of electronics, but my take on older equipment is that all components—tubes, capacitors, resistors—may drift off spec over the decades, and the complex net interactions of all of those unpredictably altered bits and pieces may be great sounding. . . or not-so-much. Kind of a roll of the dice. Wish I could do a side by side comparison of a nice sounding vintage PR with one of the reissues.

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Re: Princeton Reverb quandary

Post by jdr1014 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:53 pm

I think you have a good understanding of the options, variables, and considerations. Adjusting bias is pretty easy to do whether amp is new or old.......and a good thing to know how to do on any amp you happen to own with an adjustable bias pot.

Good luck with your search! :)

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Re: Princeton Reverb quandary

Post by brucer » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:10 pm

I've got a 65PRRI . Very happy with it at home (through Swart Nightlight for volume control), garage practice space and gigging (mic'd to PA). I found the stock low end farty, so replaced the output transformer with a "Low Profile TO20 Output Transformer" from Billm. Tightened things up nicely; never looked back.
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Re: Princeton Reverb quandary

Post by Despot » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:32 am

jdr1014 wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:31 pm
The point is that Fender Reissue amps are fine amps and the primary reasons they don't sound as good as some originals is because of cold bias and stiff new speakers. Better tubes do help too.

While any poorly set up amp can sound like "garbage", to imply that it will because it is a "Reissue" and that any vintage one will sound much better is inaccurate.
You're dead right on that. I guess I've given a lot of post space to the benefits/improvements of a SFPR over the PRRI or DRRI I used to run, when the main advantages of a good SFPR (apart from the ease of repair ... which is useful given that you'll need to replace parts more than likely!) are a broken in speaker (if you're lucky) and usually better tubes if it's still got older tubes in good working condition.

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Re: Princeton Reverb quandary

Post by thedude99 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:39 pm

brucer wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:10 pm
I've got a 65PRRI . Very happy with it at home (through Swart Nightlight for volume control), garage practice space and gigging (mic'd to PA). I found the stock low end farty, so replaced the output transformer with a "Low Profile TO20 Output Transformer" from Billm. Tightened things up nicely; never looked back.
How is the Princeton/Nightlight combo. I know little about attenuators. Can you get a decent tone at a low volume? Or is it still pretty loud.

I have looking into Princeton Reverbs. The new ones don’t make sense (also in Canada) and the Silver face ones rarely turn up.

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Re: Princeton Reverb quandary

Post by s_mcsleazy » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:07 pm

what wattage is the cannibas rex speaker? those speakers tend to really need a lot of break in until they sound good.
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Re: Princeton Reverb quandary

Post by MechaBulletBill » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:17 am

s_mcsleazy wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:07 pm
what wattage is the cannibas rex speaker? those speakers tend to really need a lot of break in until they sound good.
like 60watts i think. they're pretty cheap secondhand (ie already broken in)

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Re: Princeton Reverb quandary

Post by shoule79 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:38 am

thedude99 wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:39 pm
I have looking into Princeton Reverbs. The new ones don’t make sense (also in Canada) and the Silver face ones rarely turn up.
I had to do a looking for ad on Kijiji to find my SFPR. It still took a few months and a trip to the GTA.

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Re: Princeton Reverb quandary

Post by brucer » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:54 am

thedude99 wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:39 pm
brucer wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:10 pm
I've got a 65PRRI . Very happy with it at home (through Swart Nightlight for volume control), garage practice space and gigging (mic'd to PA). I found the stock low end farty, so replaced the output transformer with a "Low Profile TO20 Output Transformer" from Billm. Tightened things up nicely; never looked back.
How is the Princeton/Nightlight combo. I know little about attenuators. Can you get a decent tone at a low volume? Or is it still pretty loud.

I have looking into Princeton Reverbs. The new ones don’t make sense (also in Canada) and the Silver face ones rarely turn up.
My PRRI still sounds sweet to me at low volume with the Nightlight. Loses a bit of high end, but you can always compensate a little with EQ. Yes, the new prices for a PRRI in Canada are a bit silly. Fender's price bump a while back hit us harder here than in the US and the difference was substantially more than the exchange rate. Frustrating.
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Re: Princeton Reverb quandary

Post by jthomas » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:05 pm

I have a Blackface-style, high power Princeton Reverb amp built from a Weber kit that I picked up second hand. It has 2 6L6's instead of 6V6's and it is a monster. Not a typical PR, but what a sweet amp. I got it in non-working condition for a song and it was really easy to fix because it's built on an eyelet board (i.e., not a printed circuit board). If someone wants a PR style amp, another option would be to get a kit and build one for yourself or or have a tech put one together.

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Re: Princeton Reverb quandary

Post by thedude99 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:05 pm

I’ve been looking at the kits. I’ve been tempted to build an amp for a while (I’ve built a lot of pedals), but it’s a lot of cash to pony up in case I can’t get it working. It also seems like an ambitious first build.

Selling prices for Silverface PR’s on Reverb anrent much more than a PRRI after taxes. That is sort of the route I’m leaning, although I’m Leary of ordering a vintage amp that way

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Re: Princeton Reverb quandary

Post by Stosh221 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:56 pm

All the info ^ was a big help.

Wound up biding my time until the PRRIs went on holiday sale. Got one new online for $830 delivered. Would love to have a vintage tag board construction PR, but I just couldn’t work up a head of steam to find one online, and then (likely) have to have it checked over and serviced.

The standard configuration 10 inch-er was way more in line with what I’d expected, compared to the special issue model I mentioned in my original post. I guess the first one I tried out was either a dud, or the CRex speaker just doesn’t tickle my ears the right way.

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Re: Princeton Reverb quandary

Post by salty » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:15 pm

Cool! Yeah the Rex speaker take quite a bit of time to be broken in, the hemp cone seems to take longer to loosen up. But I think the 10" in the Princeton sounds great and sounds even better once it breaks in.

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Re: Princeton Reverb quandary

Post by cestlamort » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:39 am

I'm waiting on delivery of a JBL e110, as the stock speaker in my 70s SFPR totally rats out / sonically dry heaves when it gets near a drummer. We'll see how that works out ( / I miss my Twin reverb with 2 ceramic EV SROs, and since PR is a mini twin, maybe with a JBL it'll be a mini version of that sound. Maybe).

That said, my SFPR has some of the nicest cleans I've ever had or heard.

As far as the old ones go, think of them like an old dodge dart (but a bit cooler): Unless something is catastrophically wrong, they'll run forever. (oh, you're in Ithaca -- never mind. Think of them like an old dodge dart that's been meticulously garaged every winter to avoid the salted roads).

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