New Princeton Blackface vs Silverface
- Michele
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New Princeton Blackface vs Silverface
Hiya, I have a TVL JM on order and am looking to upgrade from a Gold Rush Blues JR at the same time. I used to have a AC15 that I really loved the sound of but it was too heavy for me to drag to gigs so I bought the LTD Blues JR with the Greenback, thinking I could somehow approximate that Vox sound with less weight but was sorely mistaken. It's fizzy and lacks clear low end. The reverb is awful.
After deciding against the AC10 because it has no tremolo, I landed on a Princeton because while it's obviously not a Vox it sounds a hella better than my Gold Rush and it has tremolo too.
HOWEVER I can't side by side the Blackface and Silverface and am wondering who here has, and what makes the Blackface worth more? Also, is the cabinet buzz a real problem on stage? Are there any other amps in this category that I should consider?
FWIW I'm playing a lot of indie songs that alternate from sparkling cleans to thick fuzz.
Thanks for reading all this!
Michele
After deciding against the AC10 because it has no tremolo, I landed on a Princeton because while it's obviously not a Vox it sounds a hella better than my Gold Rush and it has tremolo too.
HOWEVER I can't side by side the Blackface and Silverface and am wondering who here has, and what makes the Blackface worth more? Also, is the cabinet buzz a real problem on stage? Are there any other amps in this category that I should consider?
FWIW I'm playing a lot of indie songs that alternate from sparkling cleans to thick fuzz.
Thanks for reading all this!
Michele
- andy_tchp
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Re: New Princeton Blackface vs Silverface
I have, and thoroughly preferred the sound of the Blackface ('65 Reissue'). One of those amps where you plug in and straightaway have a great sound, and near impossible to get a bad sound.
Others have provided positively glowing praise of the Silverface ('68 Custom') models, to the point where I had to wonder if the [2] I tried out were faulty in some way, as they just didn't sound that great to me (I spent an extended afternoon trying out both the '65 Princeton/Deluxe Reverb reissues, alongside the '68 Custom Princeton/Deluxe Reverb models, at high volumes using my own pedalboard/guitars.)
You really need to try out both, as to my ears the sound and response to pick attack seemed quite different.
Your mileage may vary, but for 'sparkling cleans' I would not recommend either of the new Silverface '68 Custom' models, as they are deliberately voiced for earlier break-up; the Princeton Reverb doesn't have huge amounts of clean headroom to begin with.
Others have provided positively glowing praise of the Silverface ('68 Custom') models, to the point where I had to wonder if the [2] I tried out were faulty in some way, as they just didn't sound that great to me (I spent an extended afternoon trying out both the '65 Princeton/Deluxe Reverb reissues, alongside the '68 Custom Princeton/Deluxe Reverb models, at high volumes using my own pedalboard/guitars.)
You really need to try out both, as to my ears the sound and response to pick attack seemed quite different.
Your mileage may vary, but for 'sparkling cleans' I would not recommend either of the new Silverface '68 Custom' models, as they are deliberately voiced for earlier break-up; the Princeton Reverb doesn't have huge amounts of clean headroom to begin with.
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
David McComb, 1987.
David McComb, 1987.
- Lock
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Re: New Princeton Blackface vs Silverface
I've played both, but a couple years ago. The silverface definitely breaks up earlier.
From what your saying, why not get an AC10 and a tremolo pedal? It doesn't sound like a fender is going to make you happy.
From what your saying, why not get an AC10 and a tremolo pedal? It doesn't sound like a fender is going to make you happy.
- Michele
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Re: New Princeton Blackface vs Silverface
Yeah, I hadn't thought of the early break-up situation. That is a problem as I will likely have to crank it to get as much as I can out of that 10".
- marqueemoon
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Re: New Princeton Blackface vs Silverface
Re: combo rattle it's very setup/tone dependent. I personally can't stand it. Even if the mic doesn't pick it up it will never not bug me.
The Ceriatone Prinztone head could be worth a look if the combo rattle is unacceptable. That and a 1x10 or 1x12 cab would be slightly bigger/heavier but you could separate them when needed.
Tube trem almost always sounds better, and real spring verb always sounds better for surfy stuff, but I use pedals for verb and trem and it's fine.
The Ceriatone Prinztone head could be worth a look if the combo rattle is unacceptable. That and a 1x10 or 1x12 cab would be slightly bigger/heavier but you could separate them when needed.
Tube trem almost always sounds better, and real spring verb always sounds better for surfy stuff, but I use pedals for verb and trem and it's fine.
- Despot
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Re: New Princeton Blackface vs Silverface
I had a chance to try both this weekend (I was testing a guitar and both were side by side ... so I tried both).
My frame of reference was "what sounds more like my own SF Princeton Reverb"? That was easy - the blackface reissue sounds pretty close to my SF PR. The '68 custom sounded different - not bad, but different enough that it was immediately apparent. It does break up earlier and breaks up in a slightly different way.
I'm a total Princeton convert - I've tried Marshall, Vox, Fenders of all shapes and sizes (I own a Vibrolux as well), Dr Z, Blackstar and my 'other' amp is a Swart AST Master combo. Of all those I've tried the Princeton has what I've been looking for in terms of sound, in a nice/small/light package, so perhaps I'm displaying bias here in favour of the new amp that sounds closest to my old amp...
My frame of reference was "what sounds more like my own SF Princeton Reverb"? That was easy - the blackface reissue sounds pretty close to my SF PR. The '68 custom sounded different - not bad, but different enough that it was immediately apparent. It does break up earlier and breaks up in a slightly different way.
I'm a total Princeton convert - I've tried Marshall, Vox, Fenders of all shapes and sizes (I own a Vibrolux as well), Dr Z, Blackstar and my 'other' amp is a Swart AST Master combo. Of all those I've tried the Princeton has what I've been looking for in terms of sound, in a nice/small/light package, so perhaps I'm displaying bias here in favour of the new amp that sounds closest to my old amp...
- Michele
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Re: New Princeton Blackface vs Silverface
Thanks. Yeah. I'm kinda in between the Blackface and just settling for an AC4 12" and running digital reverb and trem. Just need to find them to try them now.
- Larsongs
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Re: New Princeton Blackface vs Silverface
I am a Vox fan & have an AC15CC1X (Alnico Blue). I also have a RI 65 Princeton & agree they are just about perfect out of the box. Great little Amp. For me the 68 breaks up to early but that's a subjective thing. They seem to be fine Amps if the early break up isn't an issue.Michele wrote:Thanks. Yeah. I'm kinda in between the Blackface and just settling for an AC4 12" and running digital reverb and trem. Just need to find them to try them now.
I played the AC10's but the VX Speaker seems harsh to me. However, Sweetwater is doing Special Runs of these a Amps with Celestion Greenbacks that I've ordered. They sound quite good even though it isn't the Alnico Blue. If you're like most here & use a Pedalboard the Tremelo issue is easily solved with a Pedal.
I'll more than likely keep my other Amps but am looking forward to the new FSR Vox AC10 with Greenback. It's also a little lighter than the Princeton, has half as many Tubes to replace(which I'll do as soon as I get it as better quality Tubes do make a Amps sound better) & is also half as expensive.
I plan to run my Princeton & Vox AC10 Stereo (on occasion) thru my Keeley 30ms Double Tracker Pedal. Currently I do that with my 65 DRRI & AC15CC1X. It will be a lighter, more compact version & easier to travel with.
Lars
Last edited by Larsongs on Sun May 28, 2017 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Michele
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Re: New Princeton Blackface vs Silverface
Yeah, I saw that AC10 with Greenback and was also intrigued. Not crazy about the digital reverb as I might as well use my own. But still tempting. The plot thickens.
Maybe an AC4 handwired and let go of amp trem and verb.
May also take a look at the Supro Tremoverb. More $$$ tho.
Maybe an AC4 handwired and let go of amp trem and verb.
May also take a look at the Supro Tremoverb. More $$$ tho.
- Maggieo
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Re: New Princeton Blackface vs Silverface
You know, my AC4 HW sounds utterly fantastic with the Sole Mate reverb. Just sayin'.
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I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.
I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.
- Larsongs
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Re: New Princeton Blackface vs Silverface
I looked at the AC4's with 12". Nice Amp but for my needs it's not powerful enough to play gigs. The AC10 with Greenback for a couple bucks more makes more sense for my needs.
I Use a Fender 63 Reverb Pedal as I think it sounds way closer to the Fender Stand alone Reverb Unit than any of Fender's Tube or Digital Amp Reverbs. I also have the RI 65 DRRI & a Twin.
I had an old cheapie Danoelectro Tremelo Pedal I bought way back for like $20.00. I've used it & it sounds great! But I don't have a problem with Fender or Vox Amps Tremelo's. I would use it with the AC10 though.
Good luck,
Lars
I Use a Fender 63 Reverb Pedal as I think it sounds way closer to the Fender Stand alone Reverb Unit than any of Fender's Tube or Digital Amp Reverbs. I also have the RI 65 DRRI & a Twin.
I had an old cheapie Danoelectro Tremelo Pedal I bought way back for like $20.00. I've used it & it sounds great! But I don't have a problem with Fender or Vox Amps Tremelo's. I would use it with the AC10 though.
Good luck,
Lars
- gaussgunn
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Re: New Princeton Blackface vs Silverface
I had '68 custom princeton. It has more of natural gain, than blackface. Also less cleanheadroom and more hiss
- Michele
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Re: New Princeton Blackface vs Silverface
UPDATE: NGD and possibly NAD!
So I went to pick up my TVL (awesome by the way)...
They had a LTD ED Princeton "Black & Blue" that has a 12" Alnico Blue in it. I think it just came out. Not a lot about it online. Only 200 in production. It was amazing but it still broke up around 5 (which sounds beautiful but concerned me because of all the cleans I play) so the sales guy is just like "hey, take it to rehearsal and try it out". Very nice.
Granted, rehearsal is not gig levels but I barely had it at 3 and it was really too loud for our setting, so and I had to knock it back to 2.5. I think I can gig with this! And the clubs I play usually mic anyway. It is a reasonable weight (30lbs). And dare I say it, it has a touch of that Vox-y chime I like.
The only complaint is the price ($1199) for an amp with no standby and effects loop. But I'm not sure I'm going to find the loud/light/tone package anywhere else.
So I went to pick up my TVL (awesome by the way)...
They had a LTD ED Princeton "Black & Blue" that has a 12" Alnico Blue in it. I think it just came out. Not a lot about it online. Only 200 in production. It was amazing but it still broke up around 5 (which sounds beautiful but concerned me because of all the cleans I play) so the sales guy is just like "hey, take it to rehearsal and try it out". Very nice.
Granted, rehearsal is not gig levels but I barely had it at 3 and it was really too loud for our setting, so and I had to knock it back to 2.5. I think I can gig with this! And the clubs I play usually mic anyway. It is a reasonable weight (30lbs). And dare I say it, it has a touch of that Vox-y chime I like.
The only complaint is the price ($1199) for an amp with no standby and effects loop. But I'm not sure I'm going to find the loud/light/tone package anywhere else.
- crankheart
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Re: New Princeton Blackface vs Silverface
2.5-3 (with the bass cranked) is the sweet spot for a perfect clean tone on my standard 65RI, too. If I'm using it in a band I like to just set it there and mic it up. I don't think I've ever had it set higher than 5 or 6 when playing with a drummer.Michele wrote:
Granted, rehearsal is not gig levels but I barely had it at 3 and it was really too loud for our setting, so and I had to knock it back to 2.5. I think I can gig with this! And the clubs I play usually mic anyway. It is a reasonable weight (30lbs). And dare I say it, it has a touch of that Vox-y chime I like.
I would get it and just bring along a spare a mic and DI if you're ever worried about a club not being able to hook it up at the volume you like to play at.
- andy_tchp
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Re: New Princeton Blackface vs Silverface
Sounds like a great amp - This one?
And each to their own, but effects loops always seemed like a solution looking for a problem to me.
That amp uses a 5AR4 rectifier, so there would be no functional benefit of/use for a standby switch. It (the 5AR4 valve) has a built in 'warm up' time.Michele wrote:The only complaint is the price ($1199) for an amp with no standby and effects loop.
And each to their own, but effects loops always seemed like a solution looking for a problem to me.
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
David McComb, 1987.
David McComb, 1987.