I want to build a 5E9 as my First Build: Speaker Options?

[wproffitt]

Hello All!
I'm going through a period of wanting to do new things. I took up running last year, am adopting a new pedagogical method in my teaching, and would like to learn how to build a guitar amplifier for myself. I've read Dave Hunter's book on amps from cover to cover and am about to read it again. For my first build, conventional wisdom says I should do something relatively simple like a Tweed Champ or Tweed Princeton, but those have a raspy quality to their sound that doesn't appeal to me as much as some of the smallish-medium amps from the Tweed period, such as the 5E3 Deluxe or 5F11 Vibrolux. Am I crazy to think this is something I am capable of doing for my first build? I'm comfortable going slowly and methodically and would like to end up with an amp I'd want to play all the time. What say you?

EDIT: I'm totally sold on the equally foolhardy notion of doing a 5E9 instead of the Vibrolux, but have questions on source a chassis/cab for this. Please see page 2 for more!

[Ursa Minor]

YES you can!

I think it mainly depends on how bad you want it.

Also has a little bit to do with patience, soldering skills, safety....
The only thing that is a little tricky with tweed builds is the chassis. I find BF amps much easier to build / work on.

[wproffitt]

Thanks for the encouragement! I understand a few of the main safety principles involved with this. Having looked at the wiring diagrams of many amps and having pulled the chassis of my PR, I can definitely see that the chassis of something like a Vibrolux will be a bit more cramped and present some challenges. Still, I really want to learn something new and how cool would it be to have an amp that sounds truly beautiful to me as an receipt for my hard work?

[Ursa Minor]

Working on amps is super rewarding for me. I started tinkering with amps before I even messed with pedals. I prefer it.

There are lots of folks around who can help you with questions and maybe best practices etc.
I love the idea of a 5F11 personally. One of my favorite amps. I'd build one but I already have a 6G2 whose circuit is nearly identical. Beautiful trem!

[sookwinder]

great that you want to dive in ... there are many pitfalls that can cause issue with new builders .. but just as I have had lots of help over the years from many here, you can always ask questions and explain issue you have encountered.

Rather than doing a tweed champ, why not a black face vibrochamp.
Clean tones up to about 7 or 8 has a superb trem circuit.
There is plenty of room in the chassis to learn how to do everything (soldering, lead dressing, placement of components - ie how much to trim the components leads etc)
The circuit also has treble and bass controls

[thedude99]

Is the Blackface Vibrochamp a fairly straightforward first build as well? I'm in exactly the same boat as the OP. I want to build an amp but am not very interested in a basic tweed champ. I was sort of thinking about that it a Princeton Reverb build :-)

Mojotone rates their Vibro Champ kit difficulty at 3 out of 5 but the Princeton Reverb at 2 out of 5

[wproffitt]

great that you want to dive in ... there are many pitfalls that can cause issue with new builders .. but just as I have had lots of help over the years from many here, you can always ask questions and explain issue you have encountered.

Rather than doing a tweed champ, why not a black face vibrochamp.
Clean tones up to about 7 or 8 has a superb trem circuit.
There is plenty of room in the chassis to learn how to do everything (soldering, lead dressing, placement of components - ie how much to trim the components leads etc)
The circuit also has treble and bass controls

Thanks for the encouragement! I've already got a SFPR and am looking for something a little different and am not sure the Vibrochamp would be different enough. This is why I was thinking Tweed Vibrolux. I know the chassis could be quite narrow in these, but is there anything else about it that should give me pause?

[StevenO]

great that you want to dive in ... there are many pitfalls that can cause issue with new builders .. but just as I have had lots of help over the years from many here, you can always ask questions and explain issue you have encountered.

Rather than doing a tweed champ, why not a black face vibrochamp.
Clean tones up to about 7 or 8 has a superb trem circuit.
There is plenty of room in the chassis to learn how to do everything (soldering, lead dressing, placement of components - ie how much to trim the components leads etc)
The circuit also has treble and bass controls

Thanks for the encouragement! I've already got a SFPR and am looking for something a little different and am not sure the Vibrochamp would be different enough. This is why I was thinking Tweed Vibrolux. I know the chassis could be quite narrow in these, but is there anything else about it that should give me pause?

The Tweed Vibrolux is actually the same circuit as the Brownface Princeton, in which I and several other users on here own and love. It's a great circuit, essentially (or at least sonically) like a Blackface Princeton but with a Tweed Deluxe tone stack. You get less low-end but a lot of honky midrange. It's also the same amp, but with bonus tremolo, as a Tweed Harvard (made famous by Steve Cropper on a lot of those Stax hits). It's a perfectly fine amp and it records beautifully and never sounds as bloated as a lot of other "bigger" sounding amps.

Have you considered building a Tweed Deluxe instead? It'd probably be a lot more usable than a Tweed Vibrolux. Bigger sounding, for sure. All depends on what you'd like. I don't think you could go wrong with either amp, really.

[sookwinder]

Is the Blackface Vibrochamp a fairly straightforward first build as well? I'm in exactly the same boat as the OP. I want to build an amp but am not very interested in a basic tweed champ. I was sort of thinking about that it a Princeton Reverb build :-)

Mojotone rates their Vibro Champ kit difficulty at 3 out of 5 but the Princeton Reverb at 2 out of 5

the VC is a far easier build than a PR.
VC .. single ended amp (one power valve) preamp , trem
PR push-pull amp, 2 power valves, phase inverter, reverb, trem, preamp

[wproffitt]

[quote="StevenO] Have you considered building a Tweed Deluxe instead? It'd probably be a lot more usable than a Tweed Vibrolux. Bigger sounding, for sure. All depends on what you'd like. I don't think you could go wrong with either amp, really.[/quote]
Tell me more about your thoughts on this,please. When you say bigger sounding, do you mean louder because of the 12 in speaker or is the quality of the tone sit better in a mix in some way with the deluxe? I certainly don't need amp that is louder than my PR and I wouldn't mine getting some hair on the notes at non-earbleeding levels.

[StevenO]

[quote="StevenO] Have you considered building a Tweed Deluxe instead? It'd probably be a lot more usable than a Tweed Vibrolux. Bigger sounding, for sure. All depends on what you'd like. I don't think you could go wrong with either amp, really.

Tell me more about your thoughts on this,please. When you say bigger sounding, do you mean louder because of the 12 in speaker or is the quality of the tone sit better in a mix in some way with the deluxe? I certainly don't need amp that is louder than my PR and I wouldn't mine getting some hair on the notes at non-earbleeding levels.[/quote][/quote]
I have long wanted a Tweed Deluxe. I played one of those reissue Fenders not too long ago and I swear it was one of the prettiest clean sounds I've ever heard (I was using a reverb pedal as well). Certainly didn't extinguish any fires by playing it, so I still very much want one. The Tweed Deluxe has more low-end than the Vibrolux and tends to sound more like a professional amp and gig-ready, if that makes sense. Some people complain that they have too much low-end and can get party when pushed. There are ways to overcome that, circuit-wise and speaker-wise.

What speaker do you have in the Princeton Reverb? For me, if I wanted an amp for grit/drive, I'd want it to be a Tweed Deluxe over a Tweed Vibrolux. It's a great sound, the Vibrolux, but the Tweed Deluxe is quite iconic. The trick to getting a great sound out of these amps, I believe, is to put a low-wattage speaker in them. You really want something that is going to take as much a beating as possible without being underpowered or prone to blowing. Having too modern of a speaker, or something Marshall-like, tends to not let these amps breathe. To my ears, Celestions (other than the Blues) tend to make Fender amps sound bloated and stiff. A nice 15-25 watt Jensen/Oxford/Utah/CTS-style speaker with a 15 watt Tweed Deluxe? I think that would work out great. It's the route I would go, that's for sure. It would still be loud, but probably only marginally louder than a Vibrolux. My Brown Princeton has a low wattage Utah speaker in it and it's a perfect match. The amp sounds so crisp and immediate, almost acoustic in nature.

With that said, if I were to build a Tweed Deluxe, I'd probably put a 10" speaker in it or at least something similar in a 12" (WGS makes a 12" speaker for Tweed Deluxe amps that are supposed to really great).

[wproffitt]

What speaker do you have in the Princeton Reverb? For me, if I wanted an amp for grit/drive, I'd want it to be a Tweed Deluxe over a Tweed Vibrolux. It's a great sound, the Vibrolux, but the Tweed Deluxe is quite iconic. The trick to getting a great sound out of these amps, I believe, is to put a low-wattage speaker in them.

With that said, if I were to build a Tweed Deluxe, I'd probably put a 10" speaker in it or at least something similar in a 12" (WGS makes a 12" speaker for Tweed Deluxe amps that are supposed to really great).

I've got the stock Oxford in my PR. The low end can fart out but it delivers that sparkly sound people think of with the PR in spades!

Thanks for the tip on the speaker selection for the 5e3. The WGS looks like a good option. What say you to Ted Weber speakers? I've heard good things and they seem reasonably priced. I'm trying to think of the little extras that could make a big difference wothout breaking the bank and good speaker selection seems like one of those. I'd love to play a 5e3 and a 5f11 side by side but does not see that happening where I live.

[Ursa Minor]

A PR is a much tougher build than any vibro champ or even a 5E3. Just a lot more going on. That said, a 5E3 is an excellent idea! I built one a few years ago for a friend and it was an amazing amp. Really loud though. Much louder (and bassier) than I expected but that was totally on the modern speaker he wanted. If it were mine I'd echo the above advice and find a lower powered speaker so the amp could start to get gritty before the cops were called. Its an amazing sound. One of my all time favorite amps was an '53 5C3 with octal power tubes, original low sensitivity alnico Jensen. OMG that thing was just beautiful. Any guitar straight in just sounded perfect.

[StevenO]

Yep. ^^

The 5e3 will be louder than you than your Princeton Reverb, pretty much guaranteed. With that said, the Vibrolux won't be much quieter than your Princeton Reverb, especially with Oxford. My Princeton Reverb has a Weber 10F150T in it and it's just stupidly perfect. Playing my Jazzmaster and Tele through that amp, it's the only time I have ever received compliments on "my sound", both at gigs and jams. It's really a beautiful sound, an even just loud and cutting enough to work for most situations.

Unfortunately, I haven't had too many opportunities to play Weber speakers that weren't super efficient and loud. I've owned two 10F150T (50 watts), a 10A125 (30 watt), a 10F150 (25 watt, didn't like it), and two Signature series 50 watt 12" speakers. I wouldn't hesitate to buy either a WGS or Jupiter speaker for a Fender amp in the future, however. I own a couple of their Celestion-style speakers and they are great, though I don't use that sound anymore.

[wproffitt]

Thanks again for all of the input on this. The fact that there are several kits available with full directions for the 5e3 is very tempting, but they can be so loud, from my limited experience with them. As for lower volume:
-I think the Vibrolux may have an edge over the Deluxe with its 10 in speaker and 3 inputs (I think it's something like a 6 db cut between the 1st input and the 3rd.)
-I suppose putting an 95 db 10 in speaker into a Deluxe may also help if I were to go with that direction. OR is the 12 in speaker part of the magic of that amp?