1979 Fender Princeton

Make it loud here.
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HNB
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1979 Fender Princeton

Post by HNB » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:16 am

Birth year amp for me. :) I was thinking it would make a nice desktop amp that I could turn up a little louder than my big 12" amps and combos. From what I understand, these have less gain than a Princeton Reverb because it doesn't have the two gain stages. I am hoping it has a little natural overdrive. The seller says it does. If not, I always have my overdrive pedals. :) It is all stock except a three prong plug. I am going to get it in to have the cap can and electrolytics replaced. Looks pretty clean overall.

Image1 by Christopher Louck, on Flickr

Image2 by Christopher Louck, on Flickr

Image3 by Christopher Louck, on Flickr

Image4 by Christopher Louck, on Flickr
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Re: 1979 Fender Princeton

Post by Despot » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:29 am

Nice amp - very clean!

I've a '73 Princeton non-reverb. I believe it's a slightly different circuit than yours, but I would be surprised if you get any break up from that amp without using a pedal. That's certainly the case with mine.

The plus side is that while you get a fairly clean tone unless you dime it, that clean tone is a really really good Fender clean tone. And if this one is anything like mine it'll like things like Tubescreamers/Klon etc that give a mid-range kick and will boost the amp into a nice overdrive.

Let me put it this way ... I have two SF Princetons - a reverb and a non-reverb model. In theory there's no reason for me to keep the non-reverb, but I like it enough that I still hold onto it and use it. The main advantage for me is that it's less loud than the Princeton Reverb, so when I'm playing at home it's less likely to make the neighbours angry!

Enjoy!

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Re: 1979 Fender Princeton

Post by HNB » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:19 am

Nice! I have heard it compared to a Showman and a Twin Reverb in sound, but not as loud. I have a blackface Showman and a UL Twin Reverb that I really like so I am hoping that is true. The only reason I am hopeful of natural breakup is the listing.
All original 1979 Fender Princeton. Fully functional. No issues. Has a great natural break up, much better than that of a Vibro Champ.
My Champ that is slightly modded has great distortion if I crank it up, but it has an eight inch speaker if I remember right and the Princeton's have tens. I am hopeful for a little more bottom end, but not so much bottom as a twelve inch speaker and definitely not as loud as a twelve. :D Hopefully that makes sense. I have been told that tube amps sound best when you turn them up loud enough. With the Showman and Twin, I can't really go much over 2 before it is too loud.... LOL Would be nice to have an amp I could at least turn half way up without fear if hearing damage. :) My Champ can do that, but feels more trebly.
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Re: 1979 Fender Princeton

Post by Despot » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:46 am

That's surprising ... maybe the circuit changed in the later ones...

My experience with mine has been that it's a very clean, not very loud amp. I have a non-original speaker in there, but it's a Weber that's selected to be as good a match as possible for an old Oxford or Jensen ceramic speaker, so I'd wager it's how the amp is meant to sound.

On the positive side it is a really really nice clean sound - it's not a whole lot louder than a Champ though - it gets to sounding decent at around 3.5 or 4 on the dial, but whereas the Princeton Reverb is loud at that volume (I mean loud enough to be annoying to neighbours in my apartments) the Princeton is civilised at that volume, but doesn't have that crappy sound you get when you've barely turned the volume up on an amp. It's the perfect apartment amp in my opinion. I've never used a Showman or Twin, so I've no idea how it compares, but it is a nice enough sound that anyone who's ever heard mine has immediately commented on the clean sound.

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Re: 1979 Fender Princeton

Post by muchxs » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:00 am

Sellers almost universally claim every old Fender amp yields "warm tube breakup" when cranked, even Fenders that are about as far as you can get from any substantial tube distortion. Even amps like your non- reverb Princeton.

If they all did every tone we ever wanted we'd only need one amp, right?

The Princeton tone is kinda pear shaped, fat on the bottom and still rather thick in the middle.

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Re: 1979 Fender Princeton

Post by HNB » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:16 am

I will know more Saturday. :) I am not sure if I should do the cap job myself or if I should pay someone to do it. I have built effect pedals so I am not a stranger to soldering and such. I think it is replacing like four capacitors and the can. Anyone done this before that could comment? I already know to discharge the capacitors so you don't get shocked. I am mostly worried about making sure I get the right capacitors in the right place.
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Re: 1979 Fender Princeton

Post by StevenO » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:08 pm

Nice! I'm not a huge non-reverb Princeton Amp fan*, but they do sound great and are nice and clean. The speaker that is in there will breakup nicely (I had one stock in my similar era Princeton Reverb), so that's probably where you'll get that breakup. The speaker sounds great, too, albeit a bit bright. Nonetheless, it's going to be beautifully sparkly.

:)


*I should note, they are incredible amps, I just prefer the extra gain stage and I love reverb. I'd still love to have an NR Princeton Amp... :shifty:

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Re: 1979 Fender Princeton

Post by muchxs » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:59 pm

HNB wrote:I will know more Saturday. I am not sure if I should do the cap job myself or if I should pay someone to do it. I have built effect pedals so I am not a stranger to soldering and such. I think it is replacing like four capacitors and the can. Anyone done this before that could comment? I already know to discharge the capacitors so you don't get shocked. I am mostly worried about making sure I get the right capacitors in the right place.
You asked so I'll tell:

The difficult part of a Princeton cap job is doing a clean job of removing and replacing the multisection capacitor "can". I use WMD nicknamed "Big Smoky", a giant approximately 300 watt soldering iron my uncle Pete used to use on chassis grounds when he worked at Western Electric. It feels more like an implement of gothic torture than a tool. I'm more concerned about branding myself with Big Smoky than I am about any risk of electrocution. See, my eyes ain't what they used to be. I tend to lean into it.

A further tip is to remove the grommet the output transformer leads pass through as well as removing the output transformer. The more wire you can move out of the way, the less possibility there is of soldering iron burns on said wire. In turn burnt filament wiring is nearly ubiquitous in 1970s Fender amps.

The three 25uf / 25v caps on the board are easy by comparison. Don't get hung up tracking down exact 25uf replacements. 22uf at either 35v or 50v works fine. Use a 30 watt soldering iron with healthy situational awareness. In other words be aware of the wiring. If you smell burning plastic, you messed up. I rarely see 1970s Fenders with pristine wiring.

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Re: 1979 Fender Princeton

Post by Ursa Minor » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:38 pm

Dude! Congrats! Welcome to the Princeton club! 8)

I've yet to own one of these but have a beautiful 72 PR and have owned a handful of brownface Princetons.

I've also done a number of cap jobs on Princetons. And yes, that cap can is a doozy because you need some serious heat to get the can out. I use a very heavy duty gun. I forget the wattage but it's very serious. It's pretty much all I use it for. I use a manual bulb sucker to get the old stuff out of there.

It's do-able if you're patient and careful and really want it. I find cap jobs to be really rewarding but then again I really enjoy getting the soldering iron out. The electros on the board are much easier by comparison. You may want to consider a bias trim pot while you're in there.

Here's a cap-job thread I did a few years back on a clean 6G2, pretty much the same idea. I went a little over board with re-using the astons cap covers but what can i say - i was inspired. :wacko:
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/vie ... 10&t=75497

Really though, the right ways would be to check the caps with an ESR meter and determine whether they even need to come out. But at this age I just replace them, get rid of the death cap, 3 prong it and play!
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Re: 1979 Fender Princeton

Post by marqueemoon » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:23 pm

Was this the one that was on Portland CL?

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Re: 1979 Fender Princeton

Post by muchxs » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:41 am

StevenO wrote:Nice! I'm not a huge non-reverb Princeton Amp fan*, but they do sound great and are nice and clean. The speaker that is in there will breakup nicely (I had one stock in my similar era Princeton Reverb), so that's probably where you'll get that breakup. The speaker sounds great, too, albeit a bit bright. Nonetheless, it's going to be beautifully sparkly.

*I should note, they are incredible amps, I just prefer the extra gain stage and I love reverb. I'd still love to have an NR Princeton Amp...
I've got an old metal case from a Makita cordless drill. It will probably become a non- reverb Princeton. The circuit isn't much more complicated than a Vibro Champ. I have a couple beat up Fender faceplates as well. A Bandmaster faceplate will work dandy if I snip off the normal channel.

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Re: 1979 Fender Princeton

Post by HNB » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:45 am

Seller is in Florida, so probably a different amp than the Portland one although that is much closer to me. LOL

The link with the brownface cap job was nice. I thought about cutting the original leads and soldering it to them just to make sure I didn't screw up anything in the eyelets. Dunno. I might pay someone to do the cap job since it is a small job just for peace of mind. :)
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Re: 1979 Fender Princeton

Post by Ursa Minor » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:12 am

HNB wrote:Seller is in Florida, so probably a different amp than the Portland one although that is much closer to me. LOL

The link with the brownface cap job was nice. I thought about cutting the original leads and soldering it to them just to make sure I didn't screw up anything in the eyelets. Dunno. I might pay someone to do the cap job since it is a small job just for peace of mind.
Whatever you're most comfortable with. Re: cutting those leads like that. It wasn't the most ideal but I think I had trouble getting the original leads out and didn't want to burn anything further which is why I went that route. The join was still strong as I was able to wrap the new lead around the old one sticking out. But most of the time it's best to remove the leads for each eyelet.
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Re: 1979 Fender Princeton

Post by muchxs » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:34 am

In a '79 just grasp the lead firmly with your trusty needle noses. Heat up the joint and yank. I wear glasses so I don't worry about flicking hot solder in my eyes.

In pre- '67 amps the cap leads feed through the eyelets and continue on to the grounding strip. They're soldered to the chassis. If you think you're going to heat up the joint and yank... good luck with that!

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Re: 1979 Fender Princeton

Post by Ursa Minor » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:36 am

muchxs wrote:In a '79 just grasp the lead firmly with your trusty needle noses. Heat up the joint and yank. I wear glasses so I don't worry about flicking hot solder in my eyes.

In pre- '67 amps the cap leads feed through the eyelets and continue on to the grounding strip. They're soldered to the chassis. If you think you're going to heat up the joint and yank... good luck with that!
That explains why I couldn't pull those out!!! :D
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