Underrated British Amp Cleans

[Despot]

Also Laney amps.

I know there's been a thread about this lately, but my experience with Laneys comes mostly from time spent in teenage bands back in the '90s when a new Laney was a lot cheaper than the equivalent Marshall. Back then we were all gear snobs without the funds to be gear snobs. I remember that a friend of mine got a Laney as a gift for Christmas or a significant birthday. It was a full tube model (forget which kind). We were all a bit "but it's not a Marshall" about it (even him), but now that I think back that amp did sound pretty decent - last I heard from him he still used it.

I've gone through phases of gear snobbery, mostly when I was young and an idiot. The more I try things out the more I learn to trust my ears ... if it sounds good, then why not use it? Whether that's a solid state amp, a so-called 'budget' amp ... whatever. That Blackstar combo I mentioned above cost me 400 euro second hand. It was loud enough to gig with, and it was built like a truck. I believe the Artisans also use quality parts throughout. That's budget amp territory - but a lot of amp for the money.

Anyway... rant over.

[Embenny]

I don't know where the myth of "bad" British cleans came from, but I suspect it proliferated during the 70's-90's arms race of high-output pickups. Those things have such overblown mids that they don't necessarily get along with Marshall cleans (well, a 22k humbucker will suck for any cleans, but strong mids in an amp exacerbate the problem).

I grew up with John Frusciante as my reference point for clean, funky tone, and he of course rocked the Fender-into-Marshall combo more often than not. I think the mids of British amps compliment the mid scoop of Fender-style single coils, and cut through a mix much more effectively. Since I basically only play Fender-style guitars, my go-to clean and dirty tones for years and years have been Marshall-style amps, and I've always been extremely happy with that combo.

[Despot]

That's a fair point re: mid focus of something like a Marshall.

I use the Klon to do the same thing with the Princeton - it pushes the mid range in a way that works really well with Fenders, but I guess a Fender into a Marshall is doing that at any volume.

[shadowplay]

HIH IC100 and VS Musician, different sounding but similar enough to rope together. They are beam weapons in a world of blunderbusses, they aren't conventionally pretty but they do their own thing and somewhat sit outside of most guitar tone phylums. They don't really do woman tone or any of those TGP signifiers ...unless it's Dominatrix tone you are after , they aren't amps by committee or amps that suit noodley guitar demo dude moves but they make a sound that fits certain music perfectly, punch holes in a mix and IMO they are one of the cheapest instantly recognisable sounds you can buy.

I also hear they can turn Joe Bonamassa to a pillar of salt.

D

[Embenny]

That's a fair point re: mid focus of something like a Marshall.

I use the Klon to do the same thing with the Princeton - it pushes the mid range in a way that works really well with Fenders, but I guess a Fender into a Marshall is doing that at any volume.

Exactly. Why do so many people love Tube Screamers into Fender amps? The midrange bump - which comes naturally with a Marshall/Orange/Vox (albeit in different flavours with each).

[electric12]

My gigging amp is a 70's Selmer Treble & Bass 50SVR into a 2x12 with Celestion V30s. It is extremely clean and loud! Sparkling clarity in fact. And, as they say, it is a fine 'pedal platform'.

I've always preferred to run my amps clean and rely on pedals for dirt (even when I have channel-switching ones). Probably something to do with my first 'proper' amp which was an HH IC212. I did concede and use a touch of crunch on my Peavey Classic Chorus combo when I used that.

I used to use a Carlsbro Stingray Super 2x12 combo which was excellent, crystalline and loud, but lacked what I can only describe as a '3D' quality; the sound is a little 'in your face' and lacking in articulation - if that makes sense. That's when I dug out the Selmer and had one of those 'Eureka!' moments. Sadly, it seems that Selmers are getting increasingly expensive these days. I only acquired mine as it was being binned at work, and I remember when you could pick them up in junk shops for 30 quid (if you'd actually wanted one!).

[UlricvonCatalyst]

My gigging amp is a 70's Selmer Treble & Bass 50SVR into a 2x12 with Celestion V30s. It is extremely clean and loud! Sparkling clarity in fact. And, as they say, it is a fine 'pedal platform'.

I've always preferred to run my amps clean and rely on pedals for dirt (even when I have channel-switching ones). Probably something to do with my first 'proper' amp which was an HH IC212. I did concede and use a touch of crunch on my Peavey Classic Chorus combo when I used that.

I used to use a Carlsbro Stingray Super 2x12 combo which was excellent, crystalline and loud, but lacked what I can only describe as a '3D' quality; the sound is a little 'in your face' and lacking in articulation - if that makes sense. That's when I dug out the Selmer and had one of those 'Eureka!' moments. Sadly, it seems that Selmers are getting increasingly expensive these days. I only acquired mine as it was being binned at work, and I remember when you could pick them up in junk shops for 30 quid (if you'd actually wanted one!).

Aye, I remember those cheap Selmers too (says the guy who bought a Thunderbird mk. II combo for £30). Syd Barrett played a blue-period Treble & Bass stack with The Pink Floyd, so maybe that's partly behind the price hike; more probable is the 'valve amps are best' received wisdom that has become the lingua franca of the internet age. Even valve PA head prices have shot up over the last ten years, though there are always bargains out there if you have the right mix of knowledge, tenacity and dumb luck.

The recurring theme in this thread seems to be that, if by "under-rated" you really mean "bargain buy", H/H are the letters to look for....if a transistor's as good as a valve to your ears.

[NoiseNoiseNoise]

I still have a Carlsbro Top 50 head sitting here. I paid 20 quid for it about far-too-many years ago. It's all original aside from a variable bias pot, and I've not fired it up in about 2 years. I must dig it out and have a play.
Also I have a Crate Stealth GT50 combo, and that has a very nice clean to it, iirc. Oh dear, I can see a Stereo moment coming up......

[eggwheat]

I dont think it's myth...especially with a Jazzmaster..I've had plenty of marshalls that sounded bad clean. Hence why it was common to see a JC120 used with a Marshall, hence why a lot of guitarists preferred the Super Bass versions of Marshalls. Never forget when I ab'd my JC800 against my JC160...the marshall sounded horrible clean in comparison! weedy, spiky...thin.. I know there are many exceptions and I have found them too..but as a rule of thumb I still think it's valid.

[ToneFerDayz!!1!]

I never ever could get a good clean out of a Marshall except from a vintage non-master volume Superlead. But my Selmer Tn'B MK. II is really good in that vein, provided you jumper the channels (the bass channel is super woofy, and the treble channel is pretty thin by itself).

[AWSchmit]

I have had mainly Fender-flavored amps for most of my life and recently I got a Marshall Class 5, and I love it's cleans. I love everything about it, I can't find a setting I don't like. On top of that it's cleans are a great platform for OD/Fuzz pedals as well. They blend really well with the character of the amp, rather than the normal sound I'm used to which is that a fender amp will get kind of lost in the sound of a dirt pedal. This amp really blends with them and give whole unique sounds that I've never heard come from equipment I own. I got it for Christmas and I've not played through anything else since.

On the flip-side though, I had a Orange Micro Terror (I know not the best example of an orange I'm sure), aside from a very full gain setting I couldn't get anything I liked out of it, and after a while the full gain sound stopped being interesting all together. And talk about NOT working well with pedals. That thing was either played by its self, or not at all. So I gave it to a friend of mine who plays in a couple punk bands, and he loves it.

[cestlamort]

I dont think it's myth...especially with a Jazzmaster..I've had plenty of marshalls that sounded bad clean. Hence why it was common to see a JC120 used with a Marshall, hence why a lot of guitarists preferred the Super Bass versions of Marshalls. Never forget when I ab'd my JC800 against my JC160...the marshall sounded horrible clean in comparison! weedy, spiky...thin.. I know there are many exceptions and I have found them too..but as a rule of thumb I still think it's valid.

I think it may be that the baseline for "good cleans" started referring only to Fenders at some point (with big transformers?), something that the British amps (which can sound great) don't get.

My limited experience backs that up: I had one of the "good" JCM800s and it sounded good clean, but didn't compare to an old Twin Reverb for sound, dimension, spectrum, etc. I later had a couple voxes (AC15, AC30cc1) that sounded good, but fell short for the same reasons (and I never really dialed in the AC30cc1, so I lazily went back to the fenders which are essentially plug and play).

This is in contrast to the good (if different) cleans on my little Roland JC-77. It can sound good, it can sound cool, but it never really sounds amazing clean, as an a/b with a Princeton Reverb demonstrates immediately.

(addendum: I'll take the [rebel] girl tone over the woman tone every day of the week)

[somanytoys]

I’ve found this as well, but I think it may be a preference thing on my part, considering the amps that I've owned & played a decent amount throughout the years. I grew up first playing on friends' Peavey amps in the early '80s, because that's what most parents were willing to buy for their early teenage kids at that time (I played mostly bass). A few years later I played on Marshall half stacks a good bit, and they always had a great sound, even at low apartment levels.

As for my own amps, I first had an older solid state Fender Princeton stereo chorus, and it was very shrill (to a few of us), so I traded it. That amp kind of turned me off of ss guitar amps, although I did buy another ‘70’s ss amp (Crate, I think) for very little, but I’m letting someone else use it.

Currently I have an early model Laney VC30 210, which is their version of an AC30, and I think it's great, although I think I need to change the speakers or maybe have them reconed (I think they're old HH's). I’ve also had a Frenzel for years now, which has both a Fender (Deluxe) preamp and a Marshall (Plexi) preamp. For a long time, I kept trying to use the Fender side for the creamy, chimey clean sounds, which were really pretty, although a little muddy from time to time, and it became really muddy when I tried to kick in any dirt. I think it’s probably just be the low end sag that a lot of the Fenders have, and apparently it’s not for me. But about a year ago I decided to start using the plexi side again, and found that it’s the sound for me. I think the Marshall side compliments the Laney better than the Fender side did. Of course, none of these amps are the “real thing” they’re designed after, but they work well for me.

[eggwheat]

My favourite clean tube amp to date is a late 60's laney 60 watt PA head...£100 from the local music shop. I also have a 70's Carlsbro 100watt PA head that's very good..again purchased at the junk shop for £100.

So yeh PA heads..it has to be something to do with the way they are voiced for more of a full range...or something..

[somanytoys]

Wow, that sounds interesting. I only have an old Peavey PA (looks like late '70's or maybe '80's) that was given to me, I haven't even checked it out to see if it works yet. But even if it does, it probably won't be anywhere near what yours are.

That's interesting, thanks for mentioning that. I may have to dig it out and see if it works. If it's not a very good a guitar amp, I could possibly use it as a backup bass poweramp for my Rusty Box. I guess I need to check out if the speakers work, too.

Almost like found sound...nice. So many of the people on this website have given me so many great ideas and taught me so much, this really is one of the coolest websites that I've ever been to, and one of the VERY few I've actually joined. Musically related website or otherwise.