Sound guys VS Fender amps

[Arthon]

I have louder amps, but it seems that my Princeton Reverb equipped with a 10" Greenback is the best amp I have to gig with. I can play it on 4 and the sound guys never ask my to turn down. With every other amp, they always ask my to turn down. I think Jazzmaster seems louder then they are; frequencies stands out more. I remember a gig when another band guitarist was playing the same amp then me, but with a Strat. When I went onstage, the sound girls asked me to turn down alot.

Anyway, when a sound engineer ask me to turn down, I always do. I prefer to have them on my side.

[Scabs]

How much of a difference would it make to have it at a angle or face it side of the stage? It's not so much that i can't hear my amp when it is at a lower level but the tone i need to get from the natural break up. A lot of the drive pedals I've used don't sound nice to my ears otherwise I'd be all over it haha.

Not all of the sound people we have worked with "hassles" me, There is one sound person i love working with. She lets us get our sounds from our amps, and works from that so the PA isn't pushing everything. I always introduce myself and shake their hand before and after our set but being polite doesn't always work but that's people for you.

[budda12ax7]

In my last project I used my Mesa Boogie MK3 head and a 4-12 cab. We always self mixed on stage for every gig. There was never a problem. The PA was used for vocals and maybe on the kick drum. We played loud enough so we could hear each other and that's how it should be.

[redchapterjubilee]

It can also depend on the type of venue and what the purpose of the place is. Are they a club that specializes in live music? Are they a bar that sometimes has live music? I try to do my research before booking and will try to accommodate when I can. I've got amps from a 12w 5E3 combo to the 100w Mesa half stack and a couple of points in-between.

I've also noticed that Springsteen puts his speaker cabinets flat on their back aimed straight up at the ceiling. I should try that sometime. I'm not so "precious" about my tone that I don't mind turning down or messing with things to make a better experience. But I can't perform my show if I can hear the strings of my guitar acoustically over my amp.

[noisepunk]

How much of a difference would it make to have it at a angle or face it side of the stage? It's not so much that i can't hear my amp when it is at a lower level but the tone i need to get from the natural break up. A lot of the drive pedals I've used don't sound nice to my ears otherwise I'd be all over it haha.

Regardless of whether or not you're being asked to change your amp settings, it's always a good idea to have the ability to be flexible with your volume; there are a million drive pedals on the market, and there's probably more than a handful that are designed specifically to be used with a deluxe reverb and change the sound of the amp as little as possible.

There's also always attenuators.

[Snoo]

My mate got ear-ache from a sound guy once because he walked in with a Fender Twin. Guy had a pop saying it was a ridiculous amp for the venue and it was a bar "not a f*cking concert hall'.

What he failed to appreciate was this guy could only afford one amp. And not only did he play nice little bars with decent PA's but random venues not set for bands with little in the way of a PA (singers singing through guitar amps and such. You can turn a big amp down but......

[loveinathens]

I haul my 2x15" everywhere, whether it's a smaller dive show or a larger stage. I play in drop B and typically use pedals with lots of bass content and handle more of the sub bass frequencies in the band (our bass player handles the rest of the low/low mid end). We typically base our gigging volume on the kick and snare and use the PA for sound reinforcement (usually kick and bass).

[Kristerkk]

Ive had ampeg v4´s, orange or120´s and other stupidly loud amps in a venue for 150 people before..
I´d be happy to see a DRRI or a AC30, and as a guitarist myself i wouldnt ask anyone to turn down a 30w> amp at around breakup unless and absolute reason for it.

[017493816]

The solution is to learn how to self mix as a band, and get good enough at it to where you can quickly adjust for whatever space you're playing, and to also realize that being the loudest band on earth will likely hurt how good you sound, not help it. Contrary what Altar said above, I don't think a live sound engineer should be determining the band's mix- the band should, it's an integral part of what makes them unique.

The issues you listed below this are part of the reason that I personally feel the engineer should take control of the mix, and why I personally do when I'm working. Not only can the sound engineer work from the perspective of the audience, which is extremely valuable and important to begin with, but a good sound engineer is paid to have a better understanding of sound than the average musician - further, the intricacies of the individual problems that any room and sound system create are often far better understood and managed by the in-house engineer than any musician that walks through the door - they'll be tackled more efficiently at the very least. Nine times out of ten, I'm dealing with inconsistent levels, poorly EQd amplifiers, poorly tuned drums, pedal boards that aggravate certain problem frequencies, etc.

Granted, a band that understands how to tune and play their instruments, how to set their amps and boards properly, good mic technique, the very basics of the physics behind sound - that's a joy to mix, and it's one of my favorite things about my job. That's when it becomes more like studio work, where the goal isn't to fix problems and make do, but to make something that's already great sound the best that it can.

But even still, in the scenario in which the band blends together perfectly, they're still not able to hear what the audience hears, and it's my job to make it all sound the best that it can, on stage and from the audience's perspective.

All that said, I've played venues where the sound engineers were completely incompetent, and that's never anything but a nightmare - In those cases it can make sense to just set the amps where they feel loud enough and hope for the best.

[Larsongs]

The AC30 has Top Boost & Master Volume. He can have it turned down to nothing & dial in sweet Dirt. It's way more Amp than he needs but to each his own.

I have big Amps but use my Princeton Reverb now almost exclusively. For many reasons besides the OP's complaint.

[Bad Monkey]

sound guy: hey, guitar guy stage left, can you turn down a bit? I don't have you in the mix...
GG: No F'ing way, dude, that's the perfect sound!
SG: Uhh, I don't have you in the mix and the PA is peeling the finish off the bar...
GG: (pretends to turn down) That enough for you, wanker?
SG: let's see if that works...
GG: (to the other guitar prophet stage right) F'ing slider monkey should just do his job.
SG: I still can't get you in the mix, the mix kinda sounds like crap...
GG: well, fix it
SG: can you turn down a little more? it's a 100 person venue and you brought a XXXX. The amp sounds killer, but ears are bleeding out here...
GG: (has hissy fit) I cant' turn down anymore, I can't hear myself as it is.

later on the band is wondering why the joint was half empty all night when last weekend their buddy's band tore the place up. At the practice shack the following Tuesday they try to come up with ideas on how to get more gigs so they are playing more than every three weeks or so...

I'm not saying this is always the case, but unless there is a ticket that has your logo on it being collected at the door you're in the beer selling business.

[marqueemoon]

The only time I remember being annoyed at being asked to turn down was at an outdoor show. There was zero guitar in the monitors and we had like 5 minutes to set up. I had my no-master 18W amp at 9 o'clock and already couldn't hear shit.

#coolstorybro

To be fair though our lead singer had a guitar sound that ate everything so mine may have been extra icepicky that day.

[Larsongs]

sound guy: hey, guitar guy stage left, can you turn down a bit? I don't have you in the mix...
GG: No F'ing way, dude, that's the perfect sound!
SG: Uhh, I don't have you in the mix and the PA is peeling the finish off the bar...
GG: (pretends to turn down) That enough for you, wanker?
SG: let's see if that works...
GG: (to the other guitar prophet stage right) F'ing slider monkey should just do his job.
SG: I still can't get you in the mix, the mix kinda sounds like crap...
GG: well, fix it
SG: can you turn down a little more? it's a 100 person venue and you brought a XXXX. The amp sounds killer, but ears are bleeding out here...
GG: (has hissy fit) I cant' turn down anymore, I can't hear myself as it is.

later on the band is wondering why the joint was half empty all night when last weekend their buddy's band tore the place up. At the practice shack the following Tuesday they try to come up with ideas on how to get more gigs so they are playing more than every three weeks or so...

I'm not saying this is always the case, but unless there is a ticket that has your logo on it being collected at the door you're in the beer selling business.

Well said.

I see so many Bands who hae no concept of Dynamics & it ruins their Sound. Even if they're talented. It ruins their chances, period, of getting anywhere.

I've been in a few of those bands. Not for very long though.

On then other hand, I see less talented bands with good Dynamics working all the time.

L

[Bad Monkey]

there are tons of tricks to tame amps. Even Fender death beam amps. You may not think you're too loud on stage, but in the middle of the house you may be throwing razor blades at peoples heads. Throw a moving blanket over the amp, put it backstage with the cases, attenuators, plexi shields, turn the amp to face the wall, just do something to help the band sound good out front. Learn enough about gear so you can make good choices. Don't buy a Twin Rev and think you're going to get some sweet verge-of-breakup tonz out of it. Build yourself an iso box and save your bandmates ears. Be an intelligent musician and try to keep the testosterone from poisoning your brain. Ever go home with your ears a little fuzzy or even worse ringing after a gig? Guess what, y'all are too loud. But don't let that get in the way of the old ego.
Meh, what do I know? I just got home after a day of helping our bass player pack and a 4 hour rehearsal, I may be a little crabby due to lack of food.

As for myself, I usually play through a 62 tremolux that's driving a 61 bandmaster 2x12 cab (re-coned). I stick the cab backstage under a couple moving blankets. I drive the pi$$ out of that rig and never have to worry about being too loud.

[muchxs]

Having been on both sides of the desk...

The name of the game is gain before feedback on the vocal mics as well as the mic that's in the bass drum. I'm not going to get a good bass drum tone if the spill from your screaming guitar amp is in there.

It's especially a PITA with wedge monitors. Monitor mix needs to be loud to compensate for loud amps and while we're at it which came first, the loud drummer or the loud amp?

One band I mix uses in- ears and a single wedge so they can feel it onstage.

My favorite band travels with their own monitor mixer. They use in- ears. Some of the guitars go direct via SansAmp. There's a cranked DeVille facing away from the stage in the wings.

That's a big clue for sound guys who think they're mixing at Abby Road or The Record Plant. If you think an amp is too big then point it away from your vocal mics or put a screen on it.


Some sound guys just don't get it.


Another perspective: I'm old school. I'd just as soon mix with an old analog Soundcraft board but I gotta admit... these new fangled digital boards have a lot going for them. It must be nice to be able to save all the settings from a sound check especially in a venue that rolls several band per night across the stage. It's nice to have "smart" compressors that squash feedback before I'm even aware it's happening.