The elephant in the room is the fact that Marshalls use EL34 pentodes for the outputs, which are very different tubes from the beam-forming tetrode 5881s used in the 5F6A bassman.redchapterjubilee wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:05 amHere’s what I know from having owned a MIG 50 (both sovtek and EHX [which I still own]), a jtm 45, a JCM 800, a midget MiG, a 59 Bassman Ltd (still have), and a silverface Bassman 50. MIG 50 sounds to me like a generic Bassman. Not generic in a bad way, but meaning generally Bassman. Not a straight tweed, not blackface. It has that topography. Schematics suggest the same. It did not sound like a JMP because it does not have the tighter, less present bottom of the JMP or the JCM. You can high pass both my Bassmans (Bassmen?) and the ehx and could make them sound pretty similar to the jtm and JCM clean. Turned up the differences were very apparent. The midget 800 sounds more like the Marshall low end than the bassman low end, I’m guessing on purpose. The mig 100 I’ve played sounded a lot like the 2203 JCM I had.Dr Tony Balls wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:09 amThat is misleading and not fully correct. Terms like "more Marshall" are very ambiguous because what model of Marshall does it connote? A 1959 is wildly different from a 1974. Here's a breakdown:redchapterjubilee wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:49 amDepends on the MIG. The Sovtek MIG 50 that EHX reissued last decade is straight tweed Bassman. The Midget MIG 50 is more Marshall. It has a master volume. The full size MIG 50 does not.
5F6A Tweed Bassman. For the level of granularity in this discussion this is the same (close enough) amp as several Marshall models. Namely the JTM45, the 1987 Lead, the 1986 Bass, etc. The 1959 Super Lead and 1992 Super Bass are in the same camp, just 100 watts instead of 50. Most of those amps are commonly called "JMPs" though that is wildly misleading because most of them were also made in "JCM 800" versions. Its best to call them by their model numbers as presented here. All Sovtek Mig 50s and Electro Harmonix Mig 50s are in this category.
Marshall 2204/2203. These represent an evolved Marshall circuit featuring a cascaded front end and master volume controls. They sound very different from the Marshall models listed above, namely they're the birth of "high gain" in amps. Most of these are called "JCM 800s" but shouldnt be for the reasons listed above. All Sovtek Mig 60s, Mig 100s, and "Midget"s are in this category.
Fender Brown, Blonde, Black, and Silver Faced Bassmans (Bassmen!) are all totally different from the 5F6A tweed bassman and so its helpful to note which bassman one is speaking of.
I’ve heard this often on forums that tweed bassmans and jtm 45’s can use each other for shaving mirrors they are so alike and maybe under the hood they have a lot in common but in practice that is not exactly the case in my experience. Just my opinion from owning and playing them. Maybe not fully correct but for general purposes it can be a useful shorthand.
FWIW I never kept any marshall I’ve owned. It’s not my bag. Others can make them sound great but everyone I play always seems like it’s missing bottom. I have a friend that is OBSESSIVE about Marshalls and has collected nearly 20 different heads, combos, and cabs. His comment to me was that no one was the same and they all sounded and felt different. Whichever amp he brought he always sounded impeccable.
Obviously the transformers are different as well.
That’s a pretty big difference between the two… but yes, the preamps are topologically very similar between the JTM45 and 5F6A.
The JMP50 is a bit different in that the cathode resistor of the first stage is only partially decoupled (.68uF instead of something like 22uF), which will have the net effect of a treble boost (half-boost frequency is somewhere in the neighborhood of 300Hz). Above about 1kHz (squarely in the midrange) you’ll be seeing about 7-8dB of boost relative to the amplitude of an 82Hz low “E” fundamental