Vintage Princeton Reverb & Deluxe Reverb prices

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Ursa Minor
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Re: Vintage Princeton Reverb & Deluxe Reverb prices

Post by Ursa Minor » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:16 am

I remember how much I liked the sound of the new 68 PR reissues...Celestion and all. Totally goes against the herd mentality but that amp sounded pretty great stock (and I love my Jensen-ish Weber speakers). Sounded noticeably better than the 65 RI sitting next to it.

This thread has sort of reignited my hunt for a original oxford though... :whistle:

FWIW - since it's been mentioned I thought I'd respond to talk of "shrill" or spikey sounding silverface amps. I have never met a SF amp that fits that description. Might just be the guitar or pedals or speakers?? But I have never found them to be shrill on their own, ever.
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Re: Vintage Princeton Reverb & Deluxe Reverb prices

Post by thedude99 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:06 am

Larsongs wrote:
thedude99 wrote:
Larsongs wrote:Sounds like the consensus is to try & find a xlnt condition early 70's SF Princeton Reverb & Deluxe Reverb.

With regard to current market what should realistic prices be for each?

Thanks,

L
What I've been seeing - $1500 - $2000k. That's watching dealers, reverb,etc.
I'm guessing the lower price for early SF Princeton Reverb & the higher price for early SF Deluxe Reverb? Would I expect near mint Original Spec in xlnt playable condition? Is there some wiggle room on prices?

Thanks
I'm not seeing much difference in price between Deluxe Reverbs and Princeton Reverbs. No idea on wiggle room, I haven't tried buying any yet. I'm sure there is with the right seller.

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Re: Vintage Princeton Reverb & Deluxe Reverb prices

Post by shoule79 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:32 pm

kosmonautmayhem wrote:FWIW - since it's been mentioned I thought I'd respond to talk of "shrill" or spikey sounding silverface amps. I have never met a SF amp that fits that description. Might just be the guitar or pedals or speakers?? But I have never found them to be shrill on their own, ever.
Ditto, and I've owned probably 10 over the years and played many more.

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Re: Vintage Princeton Reverb & Deluxe Reverb prices

Post by Larsongs » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:01 pm

66 DR BF $3,000.00

68 DR SF $2,000.00

Both are very clean. Is this reality?

Seems I could have a new accurate Vintage Spec Custom Shop built for this kind of money?

What do you do?

Thanks

L

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Re: Vintage Princeton Reverb & Deluxe Reverb prices

Post by thedude99 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:41 pm

The market is nuts in these things. I'll probably buy a PRRI.

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Re: Vintage Princeton Reverb & Deluxe Reverb prices

Post by Ursa Minor » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:25 pm

Larsongs wrote:66 DR BF $3,000.00

68 DR SF $2,000.00

Both are very clean. Is this reality?

Seems I could have a new accurate Vintage Spec Custom Shop built for this kind of money?

What do you do?

Thanks

L

I've seen these asking prices. But I'd never pay them.
I still see SFDRs for well under 2k. BF, I would pass on unless I had a bottomless pocketbook or was a collector.

These days I'd be pretty interested in a used SFRI. Those PRs sound excellent! I'm sure the DR and VR models are very nice as well. The 65 DRRI I had was also pretty good. Regret not giving it more time and trying better speakers and tubes. It could have easily been my only amp had I not fallen into my current 72 PR.
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Re: Vintage Princeton Reverb & Deluxe Reverb prices

Post by Larsongs » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:02 pm

kosmonautmayhem wrote:
Larsongs wrote:66 DR BF $3,000.00

68 DR SF $2,000.00

Both are very clean. Is this reality?

Seems I could have a new accurate Vintage Spec Custom Shop built for this kind of money?

What do you do?

Thanks

L

I've seen these asking prices. But I'd never pay them.
I still see SFDRs for well under 2k. BF, I would pass on unless I had a bottomless pocketbook or was a collector.

These days I'd be pretty interested in a used SFRI. Those PRs sound excellent! I'm sure the DR and VR models are very nice as well. The 65 DRRI I had was also pretty good. Regret not giving it more time and trying better speakers and tubes. It could have easily been my only amp had I not fallen into my current 72 PR.
I have a 65 DRRI & the RI Princeton Reverb. They sound ok but not like the Vintage Originals.

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Re: Vintage Princeton Reverb & Deluxe Reverb prices

Post by thedude99 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:51 am

^^Have you tried a better speaker and tubes?

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Re: Vintage Princeton Reverb & Deluxe Reverb prices

Post by muchxs » Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:41 am

Larsongs wrote:[I have a 65 DRRI & the RI Princeton Reverb. They sound ok but not like the Vintage Originals.
I could re- kindle the classic discussion / argument that the reissues should sound the same as the old ones because they use the "same" parts in the "same" circuit. Except they don't sound the same.

Both original amps and reissues are sub- optimum in many ways. I'll reference Princeton Reverbs because I handle a lot of 'em. I have three on my bench right now, a '72, a '76 and a clone.

Bias isn't adjustable in original Princeton Reverbs. IMO adjustable bias is mandatory for optimum tone. That's why I designed my drop- in bias board. No drilling, no screwing around. Unsolder three connections. Bag and tag the old board. Drop the new one in. Re solder the three connections.

O.k., maybe there's a little screwing around. I often juggle the bias range resistor. Trick is to set the coarse bias range from cold to hot without it bein' Siberia cold or Chernobyl hot. That prevents damage to the amp if someone decides to tamper with the bias setting.

Tubes. Think you're going to get vintage tone from Russian tubes? Think again. Tube rolling NOS can be a means to dial in "vintage" tone but beware... it's a waste of time and money if everything else isn't right.

Vintage tubes in a reissue amp are a waste IMO. I'll grudgingly accept vintage tubes in a reissue point to point conversion.

Tone is all about the weakest link. The weakest link may well be some "cherished" original part or parts in a vintage amp.

For example: I routinely replace vintage Princeton Reverb transformers with reproductions that work better.

For example: The Alesssandro / Eminence 12" GA-SC64 speaker is so good every vintage Princeton Reverb should get a custom baffle to accommodate it. Luckily it drops straight in to a Deluxe Reverb. I'm not as excited about the 10" version. Its 20 watt power handling is a bit on the light side IMO. I never used to blow speakers. Turns out small amps that are tweaked to yield max power are capable of blowing speakers. I want to get back to never blowing speakers.


The price issue: Asking three grand for an amp is a great way to sit on it for a year while waiting for a buyer. A high money amp shouldn't have any stories. You must be joking if there's a full set of Russian tubes in your $3000 amp. Sure I have NOS but then I'm paying $3500 for your $3000 amp. I'm o.k. if your $3000 amp has its original filter caps. That means I can do a tidy job replacing them rather than living with burnt insulation and sloppy workmanship from the guy who already replaced them.

Lotta sellers pay an average of $250 to take their vintage amp to a tech and get the dreaded "clean bill of health". Save your money. It ain't worth $250 to me to have someone else look inside the amp. It doesn't cost me $250 to look inside your amp.

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Re: Vintage Princeton Reverb & Deluxe Reverb prices

Post by Despot » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:30 am

Larsongs wrote:66 DR BF $3,000.00

68 DR SF $2,000.00

Both are very clean. Is this reality?

Seems I could have a new accurate Vintage Spec Custom Shop built for this kind of money?

What do you do?

Thanks

L
Larsongs - move your search out to hit 1970 to 1974. Ignore anything with 1960s in the title (it'll be overpriced). The market for 'drip edge' SF went crazy before Fender issued their Custom reissues.

You should be in the 1500 USD region looking for early '70s SF.

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Re: Vintage Princeton Reverb & Deluxe Reverb prices

Post by muchxs » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:34 am

I figure the definitive answer would include sold listings from eBay. So I looked. I can count the Top 5 Princeton Reverbs sold on eBay in the last three months on one hand. That's two '66s and a '65 over two grand. A couple '68s follow at around $1500. A couple Alessandro hand wireds sold so those have their following.

So much for $2000- plus blackface Princeton Reverbs flyin' outta there and while we're at it so much for "Grab All You Can Get" pricing.

There were a few that jumped out at me like the '68 that sold for less than $700 from a pawn shop down south.

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Re: Vintage Princeton Reverb & Deluxe Reverb prices

Post by Larsongs » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:03 am

Other than Ebay, Reverb,& GBase what other Sites should I be watching?

I guess I need to be patient as I don't want to pay hold up prices!

The early 70's might be the way to go.

Given both PR's & DR's are about the same price which one would be the best choice? I know it's subjective. Seems like the DR because it has 2 channels making it more versatile?

Thanks

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Re: Vintage Princeton Reverb & Deluxe Reverb prices

Post by muchxs » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:51 am

Larsongs wrote:Other than Ebay, Reverb,& GBase what other Sites should I be watching?
If you have your eyes open and your feelers out it's mostly a matter of patience and discipline. Wait for it. It will come to you.

Larsongs wrote:I guess I need to be patient as I don't want to pay hold up prices!

The early 70's might be the way to go
I'm thinkin' real world prices are more like $1500 and up for BF, somewhere over $1000 for early SF and under a grand for "pull boost" late 1970s SF.

Trick is to find a drip edge that gets no respect because of its silver panel.

Other trick is any little thing knocks the hell out of "collector" value. Ponder that one for a while. Do you really want a "precious" amp that's full of worn out but collectible parts? IMO "untouched solder joints and all original parts" are for people who are too insecure to have their amp properly serviced. They're also part of a demographic who aren't worried about their amp sending up smoke signals in the middle of their set. Flippers like untouched original gear, too. As long as they perpetuate the perceived value of unserviced gear they can stuff the additional shekels in their purse.

Like I said, there is almost no practical difference between early SF and the earlier black panel amps. If I has to choose I'd track down a pre- 1970 because I could easily swap to a baffle to accommodate a 12" speaker. Or swap to an aftermarket cabinet to keep your original cabinet pristine.

Larsongs wrote:Given both PR's & DR's are about the same price which one would be the best choice? I know it's subjective. Seems like the DR because it has 2 channels making it more versatile?
I like the PR. It has a unique tone and desirable bias vary trem.

If I were playing in a Johnny Cash tribute band I'd got for the AB763 based Deluxe Reverb. It has a tighter attack and a more sucked midrange. If I relied on a large pedalboard I'd lean towards the Deluxe Reverb.


I built a prototype I call a Moped. A moped won't go anywhere without its pedals. Same deal with my Moped. It's a cut down Bassman built on a Champ chassis.

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Re: Vintage Princeton Reverb & Deluxe Reverb prices

Post by andy_tchp » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:20 pm

Larsongs wrote:Given both PR's & DR's are about the same price which one would be the best choice? I know it's subjective. Seems like the DR because it has 2 channels making it more versatile?
I don't find that the two pairs of inputs on Fender amps so equipped are 'versatile' in any way; I've never used the 'Normal' inputs on these amps in anger.

Agree with muchxs's assessments above. Bias vary trem and the overall tone of the Princeton Reverb is 'fucking delicious', but the Deluxe Reverb will hold together better at higher volumes and sound a little bigger due to the 12" speaker. A 10" in the Princeton cuts through the mix very well though.

If you know you'll be mic'd at gigs more often than not, I'd go the PR (but even then, I've gotten away with playing outdoors, on the back of a truck, unmic'd, with a (dead on clone of a) Princeton Reverb, so while they break up earlier, they can still push plenty of volume, and I really think the 10" speaker helps sit in the mix better than the broader sounding 12".


See if you can try a few out; figuring out what to choose between the amazing sounds both amps provide is a very nice problem to have! :)
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Re: Vintage Princeton Reverb & Deluxe Reverb prices

Post by Larsongs » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:33 pm

andy_tchp wrote:
Larsongs wrote:Given both PR's & DR's are about the same price which one would be the best choice? I know it's subjective. Seems like the DR because it has 2 channels making it more versatile?
I don't find that the two pairs of inputs on Fender amps so equipped are 'versatile' in any way; I've never used the 'Normal' inputs on these amps in anger.

Agree with muchxs's assessments above. Bias vary trem and the overall tone of the Princeton Reverb is 'fucking delicious', but the Deluxe Reverb will hold together better at higher volumes and sound a little bigger due to the 12" speaker. A 10" in the Princeton cuts through the mix very well though.

If you know you'll be mic'd at gigs more often than not, I'd go the PR (but even then, I've gotten away with playing outdoors, on the back of a truck, unmic'd, with a (dead on clone of a) Princeton Reverb, so while they break up earlier, they can still push plenty of volume, and I really think the 10" speaker helps sit in the mix better than the broader sounding 12".


See if you can try a few out; figuring out what to choose between the amazing sounds both amps provide is a very nice problem to have!
I've had to run my Vocal & Guitar thru my 65 DRRI on more than one occasion when PA's were unavailable, broke down or couldn't transport. Definitely not ideal but do-able in a pinch.

Also, I have run my Electric Guitar & Pedalboard thru the Reverb channel with all the Settings dialed in. Then run my Acoustic/Electric thru the dry channel with a Chorus/Reverb pedal & all the Settings dialed in. Easy to switch Guitars back & forth without having to fuss with Amp Settings.

In my evolution I've gone from carrying tons of Gear (way overkill) to being a more minimalist. I have a Lead Vocalist/Lead Guitarist friend who can make one trip from his Car to the Stage & set up in like 10 minutes. Guitar, Amp, PA Mixer, Mic/Stand, FX, Cords & Cables etc. in one trip. I'd love to get to that point.

That said, I really like the size of my RI Princeton Reverb.

Both Amps sound good but I'm just wanting that vintage tone & sound.

I'd love to try several at the same time. I have tried a few but they've been rode hard & put away wet. Not what I'm looking for. I see more of the bigger Twin Reverbs & Super Reverbs but I'm not interested in those.

Thanks,

L

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